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Tags: FAIL THREAD IS FAIL, Jared Lee Loughner, Gandhi was an asshole, Snob Goblin is a muncher of sorts, WolfBird was wrong, VTV is fat and poor, Get me some waffle fo' free!, Ed is a huge floppy pussy, fat fucks, WHY IS THIS THREAD SO LONG, MAKE IT STOP, Ed has issues, 300 pages of fail!, shut up shut up shut up!!, Even SnobGoblin doesn't deserve this!, You are all internet terrorists, Enablers!, Bill is a conspiracy theorist, INTERNET HATE MACHINE, Ed vs VTV, ONLY SPOCK CAN SAVE THIS THREAD, WHY ED WHY, Now I want McDonalds, Verbal diarreha, DERAIL THIS THREAD, ...why?, fast food nyom nyom, Ed scolds Snob, 1:WORLD RECORD NUMBER OF POSTS IN A THREAD HERE, 2: WORLD RECORD NUMBER OF TAGS IN A THREAD HERE, END THE THREAD, EPIC TROLL THREAD, MATT IS SUPPLANTED, Bill pwns Ed, Bill is the trollercoaster, Bill > Matt, VTV makes a suprise appearance, Bill is VTV's ghost writer, 3:WORLD RECORD NUMBER OF TROLLS IN ONE THREAD, Bill has a PhD in Trollology, Oh hey, I herd you liek teh Mudkipz, ALL GLORY TO BILLLL, Bill trolls so hard everyone orgasms in unison, BOWLS OF SEVERED DICKS, hitler had some good ideas, ALL HAIL THE NEW TROLL KING BILL, Nominate, Matt loves McDonalds while Ed hates it, Ed does not know how to shut the hell up [ Add Tags ]

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[ Return to Topic Ritz-Carlton | Reply to Topic ]
EdPosted: Jan 30, 2011 - 10:25
(0)
 

Level: 10
CS Original

Tc, a Mcdonalds cheeseburger does not have any relevant vegetables.

A well balanced meal is reflected in what the body needs. We need way more vegetables than we need protein. Healthy grains, not processed white bread. You will find no source on nutrition to back you up. Processed white bread has virtually no nutrition, its the same reason why white potato is not considered part of your 5 a day vegetables because its so void of nutrition despite still being a vegetable.

That doesn't mean that if you're hungry it won't sustain you, a Mars bar will also sustain you, but don't tell me its healthy.

I find it amazing you're all defending such horrible nutrition myths. At some point you're all going to say you were just winding me up the whole time, right?

#241 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
EdPosted: Jan 30, 2011 - 10:39
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Level: 10
CS Original

Aaron,

This:

"virtually no foods can be called unhealthy so long as you can eat them and not surpass your RDA "

is the same as ...

"I was pretty clear about it not exceeding the RDA"

You wrote:

You asserted that I claimed foods are healthy so as long as they meet two factors: RDA and nutrients. I only see one factor in the above quote.

See this is what I mean Aaron, you completely ignore the entire conversation we had been having for pages and pages and pages. All of you were trying to tell me McDonalds cheeseburgers are not unhealthy because they are "nutritious", which to you guys think means "contains nutrients", like calcium or protein.

If you read my earlier post, I said the two factors were RDA and not being harmful.

Large amounts of saturated fats and salt is harmful, even Dunning said that, he just seems to ignore the fact that he's just gone and told us that McDonalds burgers are unhealthy. Simply saying its not unhealthy so long as you don't pass your RDA in one meal refers to DIET not the FOOD itself.

Looking back, I did miss the part in one of your posts where you did actually tell me a food you consider unhealthy.

You say:

Regarding the Mars bar, I consider it unhealthy because it contains a host of sugars without providing much nutrient content.

Yet later on you said...

I suppose an unhealthy choice at McDonalds would be those that exceed the recommended daily values for a single meal.

So you say Mars bar is unhealthy even though it contains calcium, iron and protein.

But McDonalds is not unhealthy so long as you don't pass your RDA for a single meal even though it contains very large amounts of saturated fats and salt.

You know why this doesn't make sense? Because what you said about the Mars bar refers to the FOOD and what you said about McDonalds refers to DIET. Both foods are unhealthy but consumption of both McDonalds burger meals and a Mars bar is not necessarily unhealthy so long as it is within a balanced DIET.

When will you learn the difference?

Remember when I said this?

Battered Mars Bars (a thing in some UK fish and chip shops) is pretty damn unhealthy, but it isn't going to have an adverse affect on your health if you eat one once and a while. But its still an unhealthy food, get it?

PS: How many mars bars do you think you are able to eat before you "exceed your RDA" in something bad?

#242 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
tcfuller79Posted: Jan 30, 2011 - 10:47
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Level: 0
CS Original

Actually ed, i simply google cheeseburger nutrional filfillment, and thats where i got the info in my previous post. It wasn't a Mc Donalds cheeseburger per say, and the one in question had lettuce, tomatoes and onions. I din't see anything say "asterisk" only good on wheat buns, and of course I think we are all aware that eating cheeseburgers of any kind EXCLUSIVELY is a bad idea, but I contend that it can be part of a healthy, balanced diet.

#243 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
EdPosted: Jan 30, 2011 - 10:48
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Level: 10
CS Original

TC,

A cheeseburger can be healthy, it all depends what the ingredients are. I think it would be hard to get a cheeseburger to be that "well balanced" but you could get it a reasonable way there.

But we're talking about fast food, specifically MCDonalds. Seems like most people here seem to think McDonalds burgers are not unhealthy foods. Some are even trying to defend the idea that they are actually "nutritions" and "well balanced" "representing all 4 food groups"!

#244 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
tcfuller79Posted: Jan 30, 2011 - 10:52
(0)
 

Level: 0
CS Original

I think a McDonalds cheeseburger can be part of a healthy diet as well, it's all about responsible supplementation, and the saturated fat isn't added by them-it's in all meat. And even two burgers a day keeps you under the reco for it, I guess my only concern would be sodium. I think you should be fighting BK instead, lol, they are way more egregious =)

#245 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
tcfuller79Posted: Jan 30, 2011 - 10:53
(0)
 

Level: 0
CS Original

Ah, well a Mc D cheeseburger, just one alone, while representing all food groups, isn't balanced or healthy in exclusion, I think thats common sense, so I kind of agree with ya.

#246 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
EdPosted: Jan 30, 2011 - 10:55
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Level: 10
CS Original

Thank god someone in this thread appears to get it hahah!

#247 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
EdPosted: Jan 30, 2011 - 11:07
(0)
 

Level: 10
CS Original

You know what else is interesting?

One of the reasons Super Size Me is overstating how bad McDonalds is, is not just because Spurlock eating huge ridiculous amounts, but because he ONLY ate McDonalds.

I did say this before, but I think its worth pointing out again. Dunning (at Skeptoid for those that missed this) claims McDonalds burgers are well balanced in all food groups and and rich in just about every nutrient, yet if that were true eating only McDonalds would not be bad for you. The reason why it is bad for you to ONLY eat McDonalds is precisely BECAUSE it it is NOT well balanced and not rich in just about every nutrient.

#248 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
sorryPosted: Jan 30, 2011 - 11:10
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Level: 12
CS Original

Is there evidence that eating only McDonalds without exceeding RDV is unhealthy?

#249 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
EdPosted: Jan 30, 2011 - 11:12
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Level: 10
CS Original

Aaron,

Seriously? You STILL don't understand the difference between and unhealthy diet and an unhealthy food?

Is there any evidence eating a Mars bar once and a while will be unhealthy for you? No? Does that mean its not an unhealthy food?

You're either winding me up or you refuse to read my posts properly. I can't keep repeating the same thing over and over again.

#250 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
The Burger KingPosted: Jan 30, 2011 - 11:13
(0)
 

I can't stop posting pictures of poop, what the fuck is wrong with me?

Level: 5
CS Original

@Ed prove it

#251 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
EdPosted: Jan 30, 2011 - 11:14
(-1)
 

Level: 10
CS Original

prove what Bill? You don't know what we're talking about. Go back to sleep and take your pills.

#252 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
sorryPosted: Jan 30, 2011 - 11:16
(0)
 

Level: 12
CS Original

Super Size Me was an attempt to operationalize McDonalds as being unhealthy, but the guy ate way more than RDV.

Has anyone done a study where they eat only McDonalds and no more than RDV? What were the results?

#253 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
EdPosted: Jan 30, 2011 - 11:20
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Level: 10
CS Original

Aaron if you're trying to imply that actually one can eat only McDonalds and be healthy you are contradicting everything we know of nutrition. You quoted the NHS earlier, why don't you read about what the NHS considers a well balanced nutritious diet?

Do you or do you now understand the difference between diet and food yet?

#254 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
sorryPosted: Jan 30, 2011 - 11:23
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Level: 12
CS Original

I'd like to see the results of the study, please.

This reminds me of psychological egoism. For centuries, people were convinced that it was true simply because it made sense. Then, when scientific analysis was done, it was quickly debunked.

You can talk about nutritional requirements and common sense all you want. Until I see some data, I will remain skeptical.

#255 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
EdPosted: Jan 30, 2011 - 11:25
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Level: 10
CS Original

You're incredibly stubborn Aaron.

Maybe eating tons of lard isn't so bad! Till I see the study I guess Im going to remain skeptical.

EDIT btw I can quickly find lots of papers dealing with the deleterious affects of a high fat diet. Why isn't that enough for you?

#256 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
sorryPosted: Jan 30, 2011 - 11:27
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Level: 12
CS Original

Meanwhile, I'm the health freak here who wouldn't set foot in McDonalds unless it was an emergency.

Wait, so you have research showing that eating fat at RDV levels or lower leads to poor health? Can you post the links?

#257 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
The Burger KingPosted: Jan 30, 2011 - 11:40
(0)
 

I can't stop posting pictures of poop, what the fuck is wrong with me?

Level: 5
CS Original

@ED You could of saved yourself a lot of trouble with the college lecture. Most of this stuff we already know, but I do not agree with your conclusion at all. Because of course your wrong.

So far I am seeing a lot of flowery technical language that is largely missing the point. It seems you are trying to establish some things as reality with a few nice looking numbers that are not based on any actual data. You are creating data for later use in a debate that you have convieniently designed to make your points with but there are far too many variables that you are glossing over.

#258 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
EdPosted: Jan 30, 2011 - 11:48
(0)
 

Level: 10
CS Original

Its RDA not RDV, unless I haven't heard that term before.

And I don't know if that's what they studied. What they studied is the affects of high fat diets and what that did to the body. Maybe you should contact an actual nutritionist specialising in that field and see what he/she thinks, all i can do is check google scholar (where most of the time I can only read the abstracts) and various websites.

But some studies you will no doubt hand wave are things like:

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/113/1/112</p>

"Effects of Fast-Food Consumption on Energy Intake and Diet Quality Among Children in a National Household Survey" -
-
Journal of the American Academy of Paediatrics

Shanthy A. Bowman, PhD*, Steven L. Gortmaker, PhD{ddagger}, Cara B. Ebbeling, PhD§, Mark A. Pereira, PhD§, David S. Ludwig, MD, PhD§S

...However, few studies have examined the effects of fast-food consumption on any nutrition or health-related outcome. The aim of this study was to test the hypothesis that fast-food consumption adversely affects dietary factors linked to obesity risk.

...

CONCLUSION: Consumption of fast food among children in the United States seems to have an adverse effect on dietary quality in ways that plausibly could increase risk for obesity.

http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/abstract/23/2/163</p>

Fast Food Consumption of U.S. Adults: Impact on Energy and Nutrient Intakes and Overweight Status
-
Journal of the American College of Nutrition

Shanthy A. Bowman, PhD and Bryan T. Vinyard, PhD

Results: At least one in four adults reported eating fast food. The diet of males and females who consumed fast food was high in energy and energy density. Fast food provided more than one-third of the day’s energy, total fat and saturated fat; and was high in energy density. Negligible amounts of milk and fruits, but substantially large amounts of non-diet carbonated soft drinks were reported consumed at fast food places. After controlling for age, gender, socio-economic and demographic factors, energy and energy density increased and micronutrient density decreased with frequency of fast food consumption. Adults who reported eating fast food on at least one survey day had higher mean body mass index values than those who did not eat fast food on both survey days. A small, but significant, positive association was seen between fast food consumption and overweight status. Within-person comparisons showed that energy intakes were higher on a fast food day than on a non-fast food day.

Conclusion: Fast food consumption was associated with a diet high in energy and energy density and low in essential micronutrient density. Frequent fast food consumption may contribute to weight gain.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15639678<br /> -
The Lancet (medical journal)

Pereira MA, Kartashov AI, Ebbeling CB, Van Horn L, Slattery ML, Jacobs DR Jr, Ludwig DS.

Background

Fast-food consumption has increased greatly in the USA during the past three decades. However, the effect of fast food on risk of obesity and type 2 diabetes has received little attention. We aimed to investigate the association between reported fast-food habits and changes in bodyweight and insulin resistance over a 15-year period in the USA.

...

Interpretation

Fast-food consumption has strong positive associations with weight gain and insulin resistance, suggesting that fast food increases the risk of obesity and type 2 diabetes.

I'll stop now. Again if current knowledge on nutrition is not enough for you then contact a working nutritionist like some of the people that do studies like this and ask them if eating only a diet of McDonalds cheeseburgers is unhealthy, or whatever it is you are claiming about it (don't want you to claim strawman again after all).

#259 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
EdPosted: Jan 30, 2011 - 11:50
(-1)
 

Level: 10
CS Original

Bill, from crazy town, writes:

"Because of course your wrong. "

Still no reasons why Bill? Please go back to making fun of the ZGM, this is obviously too taxing for you.

#260 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
sorryPosted: Jan 30, 2011 - 11:55
(0)
 

Level: 12
CS Original

Thanks for the links. I used RDV, meaning "recommended daily values". I wish we could access the studies to see how much they were consuming. The results don't look good, but it would depend on what and how much they were eating.

Theoretically, we could get enough vegetables and fruits from the salads and fruit bowls at McDonalds. I'm not including those in my challenge in order to stick with what Super Size Me was claiming.

So, I'm interested in someone redoing Super Size Me without ever going over RDA.

Note, of course, that I'm not saying that because there is no study of such kind that eating only McDonalds is a good idea. I'm saying we don't have empirical evidence suggesting otherwise.

#261 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
EdPosted: Jan 30, 2011 - 12:05
(0)
 

Level: 10
CS Original

I think that has been done, check Dunnings article, other films have done the same thing and I referenced one earlier. Since you seem to think no one has done it, I am a little narked that this suggests you didn't read my post in the first place.

The point being that long term deleterious effects may not be observed in just one or two months.

Think about what those articles I posted are saying. High-fat fast food diets have very low essential nutrient levels, very high fat levels that eating even more than one portion a week seems to have an affect on weight gain and eating fast food regularly increases the risk of type 2 diabetes.

And that was in a few minutes of googling and only 3 papers.

You're suggesting that it may be healthy to ONLY eat McDonalds so long as one doesn't exceed your RDA.

Which btw is pretty much impossible, since as Dunning pointed out even just one Big Mac exceeded your RDA of sat fat levels and 2 went beyond your recommended safe levels.

I'm saying we don't have empirical evidence suggesting otherwise.

uuuh yes we do, I just posted you examples. This is like arguing with a raw foodist or a conspiracy theorist. Unless someone tests their claims in the exact way they state they claim there's no evidence. Fast food is not healthy! We have known this for a very long time!

#262 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
The Burger KingPosted: Jan 30, 2011 - 12:06
(0)
 

I can't stop posting pictures of poop, what the fuck is wrong with me?

Level: 5
CS Original

@ED Wrong. The FACT not the CLAIM is that there is a lot of NEED left unsatisfied. I will get into that more later. You are leaving out mountains of pertinent information here. You again make up numbers that we are all supposed to accept as gospel. Your making a bunch of assumptions and trying to present them to us as facts.

#263 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
EdPosted: Jan 30, 2011 - 12:07
(0)
 

Level: 10
CS Original

Bill, you still arent given me reasons as to why Im wrong.

btw, what numbers do you think I making up?

#264 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
The Burger KingPosted: Jan 30, 2011 - 12:12
(0)
 

I can't stop posting pictures of poop, what the fuck is wrong with me?

Level: 5
CS Original

@Ed these are based on circumstances that you created that are not even based in anything. I debunked most of your points above.

@Aaron, while I understand where you are coming from, saying that he will defend hamburgers being not healthy solely because he has invested so much time in it is true. We are both in agreement that Ed has another agenda to this.

#265 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
EdPosted: Jan 30, 2011 - 12:16
(0)
 

Level: 10
CS Original

@:Bill

I just provided journal articles that said fast food is not healthy, very low on nutrients and too much in your diet increases the risk of type 2 diabetes. That was only 3 that I quickly checked.

Are they in on a big anti-fastfood conspiracy?

I debunked most of your points above.

Where did you?

You debunked nothing, you didn't even respond to anything just insisted I was wrong and had an agenda. (Hmm sounds like a conspiracy theorist!) You just gave reasons why you will ignore it all like it was all too difficult for you to understand and you also claimed I made up "numbers". What numbers did I make up?

#266 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
The Burger KingPosted: Jan 30, 2011 - 12:42
(0)
 

I can't stop posting pictures of poop, what the fuck is wrong with me?

Level: 5
CS Original

@Ed No you didn't. The idea of hamburgers being completely unhealthy is ludicrous.

I need to provide ample sources for everything I listed above? The examples are all around you. Did you happen to see the pickles, lettuce, tomatoes, and onions in a McDonald's hamburger? Seriously you want me to give you ample sources of all of these blatantly obvious things as to why McDonald's hamburgers are healthy?

#267 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
sorryPosted: Jan 30, 2011 - 13:04
(0)
 

Level: 12
CS Original

High-fat fast food diets

How are you defining high-fat? Is it when we eat more than RDA?

#268 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Jan 30, 2011 - 13:39
(1)
 

Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

I dunno why y'all keep arguing with this utter moron. He believes he knows better than everyone else. You're not going to change it.

#269 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
EdPosted: Jan 30, 2011 - 16:54
(0)
 

Level: 10
CS Original

Aaron says:

"High-fat fast food diets"

How are you defining high-fat? Is it when we eat more than RDA?

McDonalds is high fat, no one disagrees with that, apparently not even Dunning. Are you seriously suggesting otherwise? I honestly think you're disagreeing with me for the sake of it.

Dunning gave 3 examples of McDonalds burgers as examples for his arguments. The cheeseburger, the Big Mac and the Double Quarter Pounder with Cheese.

Dunning notes that the Big Mac alone is half your RDA alone at 10g of saturated fats. He points out that two of them maxes out your entire days worth of saturated fat RDA. While the Double Quarter Pounder with Cheese on the other hand has a massive 19g of saturated fat! That's only 1g off an entire days worth of saturated fat RDA in a single burger and assuming you have some fries you're already over in a single meal. A cheeseburger has 6g of saturated fat, so that means 3 of them is 18g not including fries and anything else you may want to eat that day.

And what about salt? A single Big Mac contains just under half your entire RDA of salt, (which I see is higher in America at 2,400 mg, than say the UK which recommends 1,600 mg.) High salt in your diet is also associated with plenty of health problems.

I have to wonder what meal plan you would suggest could be devised around McDonalds that would NOT max out any of your RDA's (in bad stuff).

I showed you the journal articles, do you need more evidence high salt and high fat diets are bad? Do you need more evidence that McDonalds is NOT considered nutritious and well balanced?

Lets put it this way, mainstream science disagrees with what you're suggesting. Why is that? Now you're in the realm of using the same arguments that people that have fringe beliefs have such as, to keep this on topic, why raw food veganism is not supported as a healthy diet in the mainstream scientific literature. And to be honest that is better supported than what you're suggesting.

----------------------

@Bill:

No you didn't.

Yes I did, I posted the journal articles and quotes from the abstracts. Why dont you read them?

The idea of hamburgers being completely unhealthy is ludicrous.

Evidence? I already said we can create a cheeseburger that is quite healthy, nutritious and even reasonably well balanced. But that does not describe McDonalds burgers.

You and Matt really need to learn that really strongly disagreeing with someone is not an argument.

I need to provide ample sources for everything I listed above?

If you're going to argue a point which means that everything we know about nutrition is wrong then yes I think you do.

Did you happen to see the pickles, lettuce, tomatoes, and onions in a McDonald's hamburger?

That doesn't count because its so small and the lettuce is ice berg probably the most nutritionally void lettuce you can choose to eat. We also need far more vegetables than we need meat, so its also not at all well balanced. White potato is also a vegetable, but it is not classed as a recommended portion of vegetables because of how nutritionally void it is. Tomato sauce is also not considered a serving of fruit, I'm sorry to tell you. Add to that the high fat and salt content its really not at all good for you.

I showed you the journal articles that's agreed with me, are they all morons as well?

Seriously you want me to give you ample sources of all of these blatantly obvious things as to why McDonald's hamburgers are healthy?

You'll never find any legitimate nutritionist anywhere that says anything like McDonalds hamburgers are healthy, or that they are well balanced and nutritious.

EDIT: BTW, Bill, for the 3rd time you claimed I "made up" numbers. What numbers are you referring to?

----------------------

@Matt says:

He believes he knows better than everyone else.

If people are going to claim that McDonalds burgers are healthy or are well balanced and nutrious, or that eating only McDonalds burgers and fries as their diet may be perfectly healthy after all, then yes apparently I do know more than you guys.

#270 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]