Skeptic Project

Aaron,

This:

"virtually no foods can be called unhealthy so long as you can eat them and not surpass your RDA "

is the same as ...

"I was pretty clear about it not exceeding the RDA"

You wrote:

You asserted that I claimed foods are healthy so as long as they meet two factors: RDA and nutrients. I only see one factor in the above quote.

See this is what I mean Aaron, you completely ignore the entire conversation we had been having for pages and pages and pages. All of you were trying to tell me McDonalds cheeseburgers are not unhealthy because they are "nutritious", which to you guys think means "contains nutrients", like calcium or protein.

If you read my earlier post, I said the two factors were RDA and not being harmful.

Large amounts of saturated fats and salt is harmful, even Dunning said that, he just seems to ignore the fact that he's just gone and told us that McDonalds burgers are unhealthy. Simply saying its not unhealthy so long as you don't pass your RDA in one meal refers to DIET not the FOOD itself.

Looking back, I did miss the part in one of your posts where you did actually tell me a food you consider unhealthy.

You say:

Regarding the Mars bar, I consider it unhealthy because it contains a host of sugars without providing much nutrient content.

Yet later on you said...

I suppose an unhealthy choice at McDonalds would be those that exceed the recommended daily values for a single meal.

So you say Mars bar is unhealthy even though it contains calcium, iron and protein.

But McDonalds is not unhealthy so long as you don't pass your RDA for a single meal even though it contains very large amounts of saturated fats and salt.

You know why this doesn't make sense? Because what you said about the Mars bar refers to the FOOD and what you said about McDonalds refers to DIET. Both foods are unhealthy but consumption of both McDonalds burger meals and a Mars bar is not necessarily unhealthy so long as it is within a balanced DIET.

When will you learn the difference?

Remember when I said this?

Battered Mars Bars (a thing in some UK fish and chip shops) is pretty damn unhealthy, but it isn't going to have an adverse affect on your health if you eat one once and a while. But its still an unhealthy food, get it?

PS: How many mars bars do you think you are able to eat before you "exceed your RDA" in something bad?

TC,

A cheeseburger can be healthy, it all depends what the ingredients are. I think it would be hard to get a cheeseburger to be that "well balanced" but you could get it a reasonable way there.

But we're talking about fast food, specifically MCDonalds. Seems like most people here seem to think McDonalds burgers are not unhealthy foods. Some are even trying to defend the idea that they are actually "nutritions" and "well balanced" "representing all 4 food groups"!

Ah, well a Mc D cheeseburger, just one alone, while representing all food groups, isn't balanced or healthy in exclusion, I think thats common sense, so I kind of agree with ya.

You know what else is interesting?

One of the reasons Super Size Me is overstating how bad McDonalds is, is not just because Spurlock eating huge ridiculous amounts, but because he ONLY ate McDonalds.

I did say this before, but I think its worth pointing out again. Dunning (at Skeptoid for those that missed this) claims McDonalds burgers are well balanced in all food groups and and rich in just about every nutrient, yet if that were true eating only McDonalds would not be bad for you. The reason why it is bad for you to ONLY eat McDonalds is precisely BECAUSE it it is NOT well balanced and not rich in just about every nutrient.

Aaron,

Seriously? You STILL don't understand the difference between and unhealthy diet and an unhealthy food?

Is there any evidence eating a Mars bar once and a while will be unhealthy for you? No? Does that mean its not an unhealthy food?

You're either winding me up or you refuse to read my posts properly. I can't keep repeating the same thing over and over again.

prove what Bill? You don't know what we're talking about. Go back to sleep and take your pills.

Aaron if you're trying to imply that actually one can eat only McDonalds and be healthy you are contradicting everything we know of nutrition. You quoted the NHS earlier, why don't you read about what the NHS considers a well balanced nutritious diet?

Do you or do you now understand the difference between diet and food yet?

You're incredibly stubborn Aaron.

Maybe eating tons of lard isn't so bad! Till I see the study I guess Im going to remain skeptical.

EDIT btw I can quickly find lots of papers dealing with the deleterious affects of a high fat diet. Why isn't that enough for you?

@ED You could of saved yourself a lot of trouble with the college lecture. Most of this stuff we already know, but I do not agree with your conclusion at all. Because of course your wrong.

So far I am seeing a lot of flowery technical language that is largely missing the point. It seems you are trying to establish some things as reality with a few nice looking numbers that are not based on any actual data. You are creating data for later use in a debate that you have convieniently designed to make your points with but there are far too many variables that you are glossing over.

Bill, from crazy town, writes:

"Because of course your wrong. "

Still no reasons why Bill? Please go back to making fun of the ZGM, this is obviously too taxing for you.

I think that has been done, check Dunnings article, other films have done the same thing and I referenced one earlier. Since you seem to think no one has done it, I am a little narked that this suggests you didn't read my post in the first place.

The point being that long term deleterious effects may not be observed in just one or two months.

Think about what those articles I posted are saying. High-fat fast food diets have very low essential nutrient levels, very high fat levels that eating even more than one portion a week seems to have an affect on weight gain and eating fast food regularly increases the risk of type 2 diabetes.

And that was in a few minutes of googling and only 3 papers.

You're suggesting that it may be healthy to ONLY eat McDonalds so long as one doesn't exceed your RDA.

Which btw is pretty much impossible, since as Dunning pointed out even just one Big Mac exceeded your RDA of sat fat levels and 2 went beyond your recommended safe levels.

I'm saying we don't have empirical evidence suggesting otherwise.

uuuh yes we do, I just posted you examples. This is like arguing with a raw foodist or a conspiracy theorist. Unless someone tests their claims in the exact way they state they claim there's no evidence. Fast food is not healthy! We have known this for a very long time!

Bill, you still arent given me reasons as to why Im wrong.

btw, what numbers do you think I making up?

@:Bill

I just provided journal articles that said fast food is not healthy, very low on nutrients and too much in your diet increases the risk of type 2 diabetes. That was only 3 that I quickly checked.

Are they in on a big anti-fastfood conspiracy?

I debunked most of your points above.

Where did you?

You debunked nothing, you didn't even respond to anything just insisted I was wrong and had an agenda. (Hmm sounds like a conspiracy theorist!) You just gave reasons why you will ignore it all like it was all too difficult for you to understand and you also claimed I made up "numbers". What numbers did I make up?

High-fat fast food diets

How are you defining high-fat? Is it when we eat more than RDA?

Aaron says:

"High-fat fast food diets"

How are you defining high-fat? Is it when we eat more than RDA?

McDonalds is high fat, no one disagrees with that, apparently not even Dunning. Are you seriously suggesting otherwise? I honestly think you're disagreeing with me for the sake of it.

Dunning gave 3 examples of McDonalds burgers as examples for his arguments. The cheeseburger, the Big Mac and the Double Quarter Pounder with Cheese.

Dunning notes that the Big Mac alone is half your RDA alone at 10g of saturated fats. He points out that two of them maxes out your entire days worth of saturated fat RDA. While the Double Quarter Pounder with Cheese on the other hand has a massive 19g of saturated fat! That's only 1g off an entire days worth of saturated fat RDA in a single burger and assuming you have some fries you're already over in a single meal. A cheeseburger has 6g of saturated fat, so that means 3 of them is 18g not including fries and anything else you may want to eat that day.

And what about salt? A single Big Mac contains just under half your entire RDA of salt, (which I see is higher in America at 2,400 mg, than say the UK which recommends 1,600 mg.) High salt in your diet is also associated with plenty of health problems.

I have to wonder what meal plan you would suggest could be devised around McDonalds that would NOT max out any of your RDA's (in bad stuff).

I showed you the journal articles, do you need more evidence high salt and high fat diets are bad? Do you need more evidence that McDonalds is NOT considered nutritious and well balanced?

Lets put it this way, mainstream science disagrees with what you're suggesting. Why is that? Now you're in the realm of using the same arguments that people that have fringe beliefs have such as, to keep this on topic, why raw food veganism is not supported as a healthy diet in the mainstream scientific literature. And to be honest that is better supported than what you're suggesting.

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@Bill:

No you didn't.

Yes I did, I posted the journal articles and quotes from the abstracts. Why dont you read them?

The idea of hamburgers being completely unhealthy is ludicrous.

Evidence? I already said we can create a cheeseburger that is quite healthy, nutritious and even reasonably well balanced. But that does not describe McDonalds burgers.

You and Matt really need to learn that really strongly disagreeing with someone is not an argument.

I need to provide ample sources for everything I listed above?

If you're going to argue a point which means that everything we know about nutrition is wrong then yes I think you do.

Did you happen to see the pickles, lettuce, tomatoes, and onions in a McDonald's hamburger?

That doesn't count because its so small and the lettuce is ice berg probably the most nutritionally void lettuce you can choose to eat. We also need far more vegetables than we need meat, so its also not at all well balanced. White potato is also a vegetable, but it is not classed as a recommended portion of vegetables because of how nutritionally void it is. Tomato sauce is also not considered a serving of fruit, I'm sorry to tell you. Add to that the high fat and salt content its really not at all good for you.

I showed you the journal articles that's agreed with me, are they all morons as well?

Seriously you want me to give you ample sources of all of these blatantly obvious things as to why McDonald's hamburgers are healthy?

You'll never find any legitimate nutritionist anywhere that says anything like McDonalds hamburgers are healthy, or that they are well balanced and nutritious.

EDIT: BTW, Bill, for the 3rd time you claimed I "made up" numbers. What numbers are you referring to?

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@Matt says:

He believes he knows better than everyone else.

If people are going to claim that McDonalds burgers are healthy or are well balanced and nutrious, or that eating only McDonalds burgers and fries as their diet may be perfectly healthy after all, then yes apparently I do know more than you guys.