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QuestionmarkPosted: Mar 23, 2011 - 17:13
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#31 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
QuestionmarkPosted: Mar 23, 2011 - 17:34
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In the results, I thought I might have come across a page that may cite a non-CT source...but Instead, I found this:
Creating the New World Religion

The United Nations intends to build not only the structures of world governance, but also the form and substance of a new, occultic world religion. By Steve Bonta

In a recent speech at the Tanenbaum Center of Interreligious Understanding, United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan stated: "You may think that the United Nations, an intergovernmental organization, must abide by the same separation of Church and State found in the United States and many other countriesÂ…I would ask you to think differentlyÂ…The United Nations is a tapestry, not only of suits and saris, but of clerics' collars, nuns' habits, and lamas' robes - of mitres, skullcaps and yarmulkes".

Mr. Annan's remarks reveal an important, but little understood, dimension of the United Nations and the New World Order. Namely, the growing connection of certain religious and spiritual orthodoxies to the drive for one world government. While certain early proponents of the United Nations recognized early on that the contemplated New World Order, to be successful, would have to include a religious/spiritual arm, the open linkage of the United Nations' mission with religion and spirituality has been a comparatively recent development.

Soon after the founding of the United Nations, Alice Bailey, cofounder of the occultic New Age "think tank" known as the Lucis Trust, was already advising the internationalist set that, in order to be successful, the United Nations needed to depend on the promulgation of certain spiritual values in addition to the imposition of transnational political and economic controls. Several decades later, Robert Muller, former UN assistant secretary-general and New Age mystic, suggested that people the world over should "display the UN flag in all houses of worship." Muller believes that the UN represents the "body of Christ" and had stated that, "if Christ came back to earth, his first visit would be to the United Nations to see if his dream of human oneness and brotherhood had come true." Even more revealingly, Muller openly claims not to advocate "world government" but "divine or cosmic government": "My great personal dream," says Muller, "is to get a tremendous alliance between all major religions and the U. N."

Many internationalists of a more secular bent are also fascinated by the potential of wedding the push for UN-based world government to spirituality. Samuel Insanally, a former president of the UN General Assembly, admitted: "Old policies and strategies, which we have promoted in the past at the United Nations, have led us nowhere. Although I am not a "religious" personÂ…I do believe that the construction of a New World Order requires a sense of moral obligation on the part of all nationsÂ….which will give flesh to the concept of interdependence. We need in effect a spiritual catalyst to bring about change."

So, apparently, "they" want to control all religions. I'm not sure if the Muller quote is real or not...but even if the quote turns out to be real, how does an alliance between religions = one world religion

Edit: Uh-oh...it turns out he does indeed have theosophy/New Age connections:

"Muller's educational project is described in the World Core Curriculum Manual: "the underlying philosophy upon which the Robert Muller School is based will be found in the teaching set forth in the books of Alice A. Bailey by the Tibetan teacher, Djwhal Khul." Bailey was a famous theosophist, while Khul was the "Ascended Master" - a spiritual entity - who allegedly imparted knowledge to Bailey."

#32 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
CyborgJesusPosted: Mar 23, 2011 - 17:39
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I've found this:

Now there are many who speak and write about the need for the UN to be more spiritually awake and aware. At a UN briefing of non-governmental organisations (NGOs) last year, Samual R Insanally, past president of the General Assembly, made the statement: "Old policies and strategies, which we have promoted in the past at the United Nations, have led us nowhere. Although I am not a ‘religious’ person … I do believe that the construction of a new world order requires a sense of moral obligation on the part of all nations, both developed and developing, which will give flesh to the concept of interdependence. We need in effect a spiritual catalyst to bring about change. The ethic of self interest must yield to the ethic of co-operation within the larger family of nations.

Sounds like the usual weird stuff new age guys say, but not really sinister.

In many of these instances, the "new age oder" actually sounds something long haired hippies like myself would support, if they'd be more specific on the actual details. Whether (and to what extent) we accept that future problems will require mutual and concentrated action by the developed nations will be the crucial part in determining how good we'll be able to deal with climate change, resource depletion, the energy crisis and our economic development.

To say that this is all garbage, that America is free and wonderful and anybody who tries to "change" this is either a communist or the devil himself trying to lead the world into slavery is just betraying the type of ignorance CTs are famous for.

#33 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
QuestionmarkPosted: Mar 23, 2011 - 17:48
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Oh, and I'd forgotten about this quote, which if I remember correctly, turned out to be a real quote from one of his books about Theosophy.

  "No one will enter the New World Order unless he or she will make a pledge to worship Lucifer. No one will enter the New Age unless he will take a LUCIFERIAN Initiation." (David Spangler, Director of Planetary Initiative, United Nations)

So, Robert Muller and David Spangler are both Theosophists that use the term Lucifer and are both connected to the UN, plus there was already a Theosophy connection with Alice Bailey. Very strange.

You have a point, Cyborg. I just can't help getting weirded out that there are all those Theosophy connections...not good for my OCD. I came across this stuff sort of by accident...and it's not good for my OCD. My mind keeps saying, "what if, what if?"

This doesn't help because some of my beliefs fall into the somewhat "New Age" category. And I'm questioning whether or not they're somehow related to a conspiracy.

#34 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Kaiser FalknerPosted: Mar 23, 2011 - 17:53
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HAIL HYDRA

Level: 6
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Where does the Planetary Initiative show itself to be a real and valid part of the UN? The only place I see it is garbage websites

#35 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Mar 23, 2011 - 17:54
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
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Dude, Steve Bonta was the Director of Communications for the Constitution Party. Its an fringe rightwing third party.

Here's his opinion of Harry Potter:

-----

The right-wing U.S. John Birch Society has objected to Rowling's books and her public statements. In his article for the John Birch Society's magazine The New American, Constitution Party Communications Director Steve Bonta compared Harry Potter negatively to The Lord of the Rings, saying "The Potter books read in places like diatribes against the modern middle class, especially whenever Harry confronts his ludicrously dysfunctional and downright abusive adopted family, the Dursleys."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Harry_Potter</p>

-----

Is this someone you really want to listen to? I think not.

#36 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
QuestionmarkPosted: Mar 23, 2011 - 17:55
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Actually, I was about to mention that Falkner. I discovered that I can't find any connection that he has to the UN except in CT sites.

#37 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Mar 23, 2011 - 17:55
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
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Oh, and he's also a Bircher.

Never, ever listen to Birchers. They see communist conspiracies in their toilet bowls and shit. Yes, I stole that from a Bob Dylan song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AylFqdxRMwE

#38 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
QuestionmarkPosted: Mar 23, 2011 - 17:58
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Wow, hazmatt...that's a really strange opinion of Harry Potter.

Anyway, I still can't find any credible evidence of Spangler being connected to the UN. So, I guess that's just to Theosophy connections that the UN seems to have so far.

#39 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Mar 23, 2011 - 17:59
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

Well, he's a Bircher. They're crazy. Glenn Beck and Alex Jones are heavily influenced by Bircher material.

#40 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
QuestionmarkPosted: Mar 23, 2011 - 18:15
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Level: 1
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Birchers do indeed seem quite strange.

It seems no one else can find a legitimate source for that Spangler quotation either:

http://irregulartimes.com/index.php/archives/2007/08/21/spangler-lucifer-the-united-nations-and-the-new-age/comment-page-1/</p>

Spangler, Lucifer, the United Nations and the New Age
posted 21st August 2007 in Mysteries, Politics, Religion by Jim Cook

This morning, Irregular Times received an e-mail from Sue, who while using capital letters to warn of a conspiracy to implement the impending North American Union was apparently content to let an advertisement inviting me to “Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL” get stuck on the bottom of her message.

I was particularly struck by the following “quote”:

“No one will enter the New World Order unless he or she will make a pledge to worship Lucifer. ” David Spangler of U.N.

Sue’s not alone in referencing this “quote.” Sherry Shriner is a typical example:

Those in the New World Order who are in control of most of the governments of the world already today declare that to become a citizen of this order will require a Luciferian oath.

Accordingly those in the implementation stages proclaim:
“No one will enter the New World Order unless he or she will make a pledge to worship Lucifer. No one will enter the New Age unless he will take a Luciferian Initiation.”

—David Spangler, Director of Planetary Initiative, United Nations

Amongst all the global governing changes and wars that are taking place to accommodate this New World Order many are overlooking the most dominant aspect of it, its religious and occultic nature.

The New World Order IS about religion. It is about worshipping Lucifer.

Wake up folks!

Notice the lack of hyperlinks? Notice the lack of any attribution whatsoever? I’ve waded through thirty similar websites claiming that David Spangler is a Director of Planetary Initiative at the United Nations, and none have any source for the contention. The United Nations website refers to no Planetary Initiative headed by David Spangler (aha!, you say, hidden just like the black helicopters!). The United Nations website does not refer to any employment of David Spangler (aha!, hidden just like the implanted microchips!). I can find no evidence that this quotation exists anywhere but in the minds of the people who spread it.

Where did the idea come from? The Findhorn Foundation, with which he had some involvement three decades ago, proclaims that it has been an officially recognized United Nations nongovernmental organization. The United Nations specifically states of nongovernmental organizations that work with it:

Please note that association of NGOs with DPI does not constitute their incorporation into the United Nations system, nor does it entitle associated organizations or their staff to any kind of privileges, immunities or special status.

Could this very loose and decades-past association with an organization that indeed is currently associated with the United Nations as an NGO be what sparked this notion?

And why David Spangler? He provides the non-Christian aspect of the conspiracy, as a teacher of online courses through the Lorian Association and the a number of books about spiritual “manifestation”. He’s been in touch with “non-physical entities” and “inner plane beings” for many years now, apparently. If you think that’s especially weird, ask Auntie Gertrude about her weekly habit of drinking God’s kid’s blood. It’s different-enough sounding for somebody to make the “Lucifer” connection and to have it stick, apparently.

The United Nations Lucifer quotation claim appears to be utter baloney. But what a strange and interesting baloney run it has been.

#41 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Mar 23, 2011 - 18:17
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

This is just what CTs do. They make shit up because they're psychotic.

#42 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
QuestionmarkPosted: Mar 23, 2011 - 19:29
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It looks like someone may have altered a real quote by Spangler to say stuff about the NWO:

Here’s a Spangler quote, very similar to the one presented. It’s from ‘Reflections on the Christ’ (1981), Findhorn Lecture Series, Third edition, p. 45.
“The true light of Lucifer cannot be seen through sorrow, through darkness, through reflection.
The true light of this great being can only be recognized when one’s own eyes can see with
the light of the Christ, the light of the inner sun. Lucifer works within each of us to bring us to wholeness, and as we move into the New Age, which is the age of man’s wholeness, each of us is brought to that point which I term the Luciferic Initiation, the particular doorway through which the individual must pass if he is to come fully into the presence of his light and his wholeness.
Lucifer comes to give us the final gift of wholeness. If we accept it, then he is free and we are free, that is the Luciferic Initiation. It is one that many people now, and in the days ahead, will be facing, for it is an initiation into the New Age.”

#43 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Mar 23, 2011 - 20:05
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
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Lucifer is just absurd a concept as Christ.

You only find this stuff from Bible thumping sites, which should tell you something.

#44 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
QuestionmarkPosted: Mar 23, 2011 - 20:08
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I believe in Christ in some way and don't think the belief is absurd, but I don't want to tell you what to believe.

But, anyway...David Spangler has said the aforementioned quote...but people altered it so it looked like he was referring to the NWO. He did study Theosophy, etc. But it doesn't seem like he had much of a connection to the UN after all, but Robert Muller is a Theosophist that does have a connection to the UN

"Robert Muller (born 1923 in Belgium, dead September 20, 2010) was an international civil servant with the United Nations. Under Secretary General for 40 years, his ideas about world government, world peace and spirituality led to the increased representation of religions in the UN, especially of New Age Movement. He has become known as the "Philosopher" of the UN."

#45 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
JoePosted: Mar 23, 2011 - 20:25
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#46 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
JoePosted: Mar 23, 2011 - 20:49
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Questionmark
It does not matter what Robert Muller believes. Because if really study the UN you will notice that it really does not any form of power. For exapmle during the Cold War it was pushed to the sidelines by the USSR and the U.S. Even since the end of the Cold War it has not poven itself any powerful.

#47 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
EzPosted: Mar 23, 2011 - 22:07
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Well if all religions are to be represented in the UN, so should new age beliefs, which really aren't that bad if you look at it with non christian views.

Also dont forget 'world government' doesn't always mean 'nazi like police state'.

#48 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
duncanlecombrePosted: Mar 24, 2011 - 01:51
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Hey questionmark I'm a Christian too, I know how its feels sometimes to just accept the idea of a CT because it fits with our belief system, I find after some research thing seem more to be shoe horned into it.

For example everyone gets uptight when ever "New world order" is said but those words are not in the bible.

One train of thinking that prevented me from spiraling down the CT hole is this........

Lets say all the CT sites are true, what are you expected to do? Run around "spreading the word" don't think so that would be giving false witness, like you mentioned finding sources for a lot of what we are discussing is difficult and/or impossible. Are you to live in fear and paranoia, Bill Cooper claimed to be a Christian but lived his life in fear, such a strong fear he opened fire on some cops, this isn't the kind of life or purpose God has in store for us. The truth is if you believe in the Christian aspect of the CT, then you have to understand that god has everything under control.

Would you not say that is sound logic question? The other thing is I began life as an Atheist, trust me Atheist's (and even other religions)are not some sort evil group out to get you, were are all people who just think different stuff. The people who believe in the Koran actually believe they are following God, they are not a bunch of satanists. Biblical CT's tend to make the world out like its the Christians VS Everyone else who obviously follow Satan.

From there obviously I began to learn that most(99.999%) CT stuff is completely false

#49 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Wolf BirdPosted: Mar 24, 2011 - 06:53
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I shoot you dead.

Level: 9
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^That. ALL of that. Great post, duncan. :)

#50 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
The Burger KingPosted: Mar 24, 2011 - 07:11
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I can't stop posting pictures of poop, what the fuck is wrong with me?

Level: 5
CS Original

Listen to Oprah and Dr.Phil they know all!

#51 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
QuestionmarkPosted: Mar 24, 2011 - 09:54
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Level: 1
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Thanks, guys. Your posts have greatly helped to reduce my anxiety.

There is one CT-related quote that still disturbs me, however...it's not related to the UN, but I know it's a real quote:

For more than a century, ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents such as my encounter with Castro to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure — one world, if you will. If that is the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.
- David Rockefeller's Memoirs, Page 405

#52 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Mar 24, 2011 - 10:01
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
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Why would an integrated global economic structure be bad? Sounds like "trade" to me, which is the easiest way to find common ground with a different culture.

I see nothing sinister about that quote.

#53 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
QuestionmarkPosted: Mar 24, 2011 - 10:04
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Level: 1
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It's not that...it's the "part of a secret cabal working against the best interest of the United States." part. He says he is guilty of it.

#54 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Mar 24, 2011 - 10:06
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

He's being sarcastic. Come on now.

A good understanding of context would alleviate a lot of your concerns over this stuff.

#55 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
QuestionmarkPosted: Mar 24, 2011 - 10:10
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Maybe...but why would he be sarcastic in his memoirs? Sarcasm doesn't translate well into text. Why wouldn't someone say to him before the book was published, "Is there any other way you could word this? People will think you're conspiring against America if you leave the wording as it is." It's just weird

#56 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Mar 24, 2011 - 10:12
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

I wonder if the inability to understand context dovetails with putting faith in works of fiction like the Bible.

I wish I had the academic understanding of psychology to say yes or no. Believing something is true simply because you read it a certain way shows a real metacognitive deficiency.

#57 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
QuestionmarkPosted: Mar 24, 2011 - 10:25
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Level: 1
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I don't appreciate your telling me I have a metacognitive deficiency just because I feel that it's strange for such a quote to have made it into his memoirs unedited.

Please, explain the context then...since you seem to be quite the expert.

#58 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
The Burger KingPosted: Mar 24, 2011 - 10:27
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I can't stop posting pictures of poop, what the fuck is wrong with me?

Level: 5
CS Original

@Hazmatt sounds interesting, I think that could be applied in a much broader speculation.

#59 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Mar 24, 2011 - 10:32
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

I'm interested in accuracy, not your feelings.

The quote isn't strange. A memoir is a way for someone to discuss their views on their life. Its not about being careful not to step on the toes of every nutbar on the planet who already hates him regardless of what he puts in his memoirs.

#60 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]