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Forum - George Monbiot debates Ian Plimer - Page 2

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Agent MattPosted: Mar 01, 2011 - 16:34
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
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I'm sorry I guess refusing to watch the debate because Monbiot wasn't able to travel into the future to get the real story behind the CRU emails is just Ed being reasonable.

#31 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Inside JobPosted: Mar 01, 2011 - 16:35
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XD

#32 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
EdPosted: Mar 01, 2011 - 16:38
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Level: 10
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In the offchance you're serious...

You said I called him a denialist, I never said or implied that and there's no way you could honestly glean that from anything I said.

I also said that even at the time he should not have taken the interpretation of the emails the "skeptics" had given them without question (which it seems he did going by what he said) I said that what he should have done is explain about context and and that we need more information and to see what official review panels discovered. Instead he says it was unscientific and seems pretty sure those involved were being dishonest.

Why do you have to pretend I said something I didn't?

#33 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Mar 01, 2011 - 16:39
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
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"You said I called him a denialist"

Uhm, no I didn't Ed. You're imagining things again.

#34 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Inside JobPosted: Mar 01, 2011 - 16:41
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Level: 2
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Are a vegetarian or vegan, ed?

#35 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
EdPosted: Mar 01, 2011 - 16:41
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Level: 10
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Ed hears one comment from the guy calling out the denialist and goes bonkers at the guy calling out the denialist over a comment he doesn't understand the context of, because he didn't watch the damn debate.

So what are you talking about here then?

I admit it is written pretty badly, so maybe I did misunderstand you.

#36 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
EdPosted: Mar 01, 2011 - 16:42
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And no comment on the email issue? Thought not. What I actually said isn't unreasonable enough. I know, its annoying.

#37 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
EdPosted: Mar 01, 2011 - 16:44
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Inside Job, relevance? And you know Im not, I already said so in the McDonalds thread.

#38 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Mar 01, 2011 - 16:44
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

I was pointing out the irony of you taking issue with Monbiot who was in the debate to argue against Plimer. All because Monbiot acknowledged that the CRU emails might show wrongdoing because the debate was held right when the CRU emails were leaked. At that point no one knew anything about the CRU emails, how they had been obtained or whether or not they'd been quote mined. Its not unreasonable at all for Monbiot to say the CRU emails might show wrongdoing, because at that time no one knew that they did not.

You're looking incredibly foolish Ed.

#39 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
EdPosted: Mar 01, 2011 - 16:48
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All because Monbiot acknowledged that the CRU emails might show wrongdoing

Except he didn't say that though, since he seemed pretty damn sure that it does show wrong doing and dishonesty on the part of the people involved and he says he sees no defence for it. If he said what you said he said I wouldn't have had a problem with it.

At that point no one knew anything about the CRU emails,

And yet he seems so certain they do show dishonesty, which is my problem.

He was all too quick to accept them at face value and condemn the scientists involved without making sure they weren't actually taken out of context first. He doesn't even talk about the fact that they are not in context and so we must be careful in jumping to conclusions.

#40 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Mar 01, 2011 - 16:52
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
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"And yet he seems so certain they show dishonesty, which is my problem."

Yes, I would agree that's your problem. Because I didn't get that at all. But then again, I actually watched the debate.

#41 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
EdPosted: Mar 01, 2011 - 17:07
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Because I didn't get that at all. But then again, I actually watched the debate.

Well I showed you the quotes on the previous page, he seems pretty damn certain to me. He certainly didnt say anything like what you said he said.

If he goes back on his previous stance on the emails in the rest of the debate, please tell me, because that would be a reason to continue watching. In which case your response should have initially been that he seems to change his mind later on and its worth watching. So is that the case?

#42 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
The Burger KingPosted: Mar 01, 2011 - 17:13
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I can't stop posting pictures of poop, what the fuck is wrong with me?

Level: 5
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@Ed I found you on youtube

Neon Indian - Should Have Taken Acid With You

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1f1rQ2fNos

#43 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
EdPosted: Mar 01, 2011 - 18:53
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Level: 10
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btw here again he says that the scientists involved in the CRU email controversy WERE dishonest and unscientific in no uncertain terms:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VscBGa02ggE#t=9m26s

The FOI requests he is talking about was because they were being spammed by requests from skeptics they couldn't possibly fulfil and felt it was intentional.

#44 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Mar 01, 2011 - 18:54
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

I don't understand what you have a problem with.

#45 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
EdPosted: Mar 01, 2011 - 19:01
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Level: 10
CS Original

In that video Monbiot says that Phil Jones of CRU should resign because what he asked people to do was suppress science and that it may even be criminal. That section starts at 10:22 seconds into the video I posted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VscBGa02ggE#t=10m22s

So that is what I have a problem with, he has already made up his mind about their conduct prematurely.

#46 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]