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Tags: Pat Robertson, New World Order, Obama, antichrist, Harris poll, rick roll'd, Alex Jones, to do, Nominate, illuminati, NWO [ Add Tags ]

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DianePosted: Apr 07, 2010 - 13:35
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I just now came across a page on the Harris Interactive site about a recent Harris poll showing the extraordinary popularity of various wacky beliefs about Obama, including:

  • He wants to turn over the sovereignty of the United States to a one world government (29%)
  • He wants to use an economic collapse or terrorist attack as an excuse to take dictatorial powers (23%)
  • He may be the Anti-Christ (14%)

The first two beliefs mentioned above are pretty much at the heart of "New World Order" beliefs. So, it would seem that Alex Jones's statistic about the number of "New World Order" believers here in the U.S.A. is, indeed, not too far off.

#31 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Apr 07, 2010 - 13:45
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Genuine American Monster

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That poll is biased bullshit. It was not a scientific poll at all.

In fact, I'm pretty sure the outfit that did it pays people to take polls.

#32 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Plautus SatirePosted: Apr 07, 2010 - 13:57
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none of the above is "spam", if you want to see real "spam", don't look here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

I warned you, don't say I didn't.

#33 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
DianePosted: Apr 07, 2010 - 14:14
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Matt wrote:

That poll is biased bullshit. It was not a scientific poll at all.

Hmmm, I thought Harris was one of the more respectable polling outfits. I could be wrong.

In fact, I'm pretty sure the outfit that did it pays people to take polls.

Do you mean that Harris gets paid to do polls, or that Harris pays its respondants? If the latter, what's wrong with that? Seems to me that it would cut down on self-selection bias and hence would be a good thing, not a bad thing.

Are you sure you aren't just knee-jerking because I agreed with Alex Jones about something?

Please note that I do NOT agree with Alex Jones about most things. I regard the growing popularity of grand conspiracy ideology as a serious problem. I think Alex Jones is right about how popular it is, but, to me, that's a bad thing, not a good thing.

#34 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Apr 07, 2010 - 14:17
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Genuine American Monster

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"Are you sure you aren't just knee-jerking because I agreed with Alex Jones about something?"

No, my liberal friends on Facebook posted this stupid poll endlessly because it "proved" that rightwingers were crazy. We looked into the company that did the polling and everything about it stunk.

Its a piece of shit, but hey, believe it if you want. I wanted to, since I can't stand rightwingers. But I couldn't do it without being intellectually dishonest with myself, and that is something I will not do.

#35 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
DianePosted: Apr 07, 2010 - 14:21
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Matt wrote:

We looked into the company that did the polling and everything about it stunk.

Could you please elaborate? Precisely what about it "stunk," and could you please provide the sources for your info?

#36 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Apr 07, 2010 - 14:25
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Genuine American Monster

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Why do you want to believe this poll is true so badly? It makes my fellow liberals look like vultures.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/scott-whitlock/2010/03/24/after-heavily-touting-online-poll-msnbcs-david-shuster-questions-sur</p>

The methodology for the poll was garbage as was the way it was reported.

Thanks for making me go to NewsBusters. I hate that site.

I was wrong on remembering why the poll stunk. It wasn't the company that did it, it was the way the poll was conducted. Can't remember everything.

#37 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
DianePosted: Apr 07, 2010 - 16:16
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To Matt: Thanks for the link to Newsbusters, which, however much you may hate that site, provides a lot more substantive info than you just saying that the poll is "garbage," which really doesn't tell me anything at all.

One could probably find flaws with the methodology of just about any poll. Hopefully there will be follow-up polls by other organizations, using other methodologies. Only then will we have a better idea how valid the poll results are.

The poll results do happen to match my own personal impressions of America's sociopolitical climate today. Apparently they don't match your impressions. Whose impressions are more likely to be correct, and on what basis? We can discuss this some more, apart from the poll, if you would like.

Two questions for you:

1) In what part of the country do you live?

2) Are you aware of the evangelical/fundamentalist/charismatic Christian subculture, and have you made any effort to keep up with recent religious trends?

#38 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Apr 07, 2010 - 16:19
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Genuine American Monster

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"To Matt: Thanks for the link to Newsbusters, which, however much you may hate that site, provides a lot more substantive info than you just saying that the poll is "garbage," which really doesn't tell me anything at all."

I don't understand why you sourced a poll you hadn't investigated in the first place.

"1) In what part of the country do you live?"

I live in Tulsa, OK.

Still want to ask question number two?

#39 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
DianePosted: Apr 07, 2010 - 16:29
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Matt wrote: "Still want to ask question number two?"

Yes. Are you aware of the rapid worldwide growth of independent charismatic churches these past several decades? Are you familiar with the "New Apostolic Reformation"? Have you paid much attention to the various kinds of evangelical/fundamentalist/charismatic end-times beliefs, and how they've been evolving lately?

#40 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Apr 07, 2010 - 16:31
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Genuine American Monster

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"Are you aware of the rapid worldwide growth of independent charismatic churches these past several decades?"

OMG NOT UNTIL YOU JUST TOLD ME ABOUT IT HOLY CRAP

Anna Falling ran for mayor here. Her pet issue was putting a creationist exhibit in the Tulsa Zoo.

So yeah. I'm aware.

#41 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
DianePosted: Apr 07, 2010 - 16:43
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Matt wrote:

I don't understand why you sourced a poll you hadn't investigated in the first place.

Harris is a respected polling organization of long standing. I assumed that they know what they are doing. That assumption may be wrong, of course, but it seemed prima facia reasonable.

Of course, all polls are flawed to some extent. Polling methodology in general is a matter of great controversy, as discussed in, for example, an article referenced on the Newsbusters site, Do Pollsters Need Random Samples? by Mark Blumenthal, National Journal, Tuesday, Oct. 13, 2009.

As I said, it will be interesting to see if similar results are obtained via other polls using other methodologies.

#42 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Apr 07, 2010 - 16:47
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
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"Harris is a respected polling organization of long standing. I assumed that they know what they are doing. That assumption may be wrong, of course, but it seemed prima facia reasonable."

The poll results were anything but reasonable, which made me investigate it rather than automatically assuming it reinforced what I already wanted to believe.

But that's me.

#43 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
DianePosted: Apr 07, 2010 - 16:48
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Matt wrote:

Anna Falling ran for mayor here. Her pet issue was putting a creationist exhibit in the Tulsa Zoo.

So you're aware of creationism, at least. Have you paid much attention to the varieties of evangelical/fundamentalist/charismatic end-times beliefs, and how those beliefs have been evolving these past few decades?

#44 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Apr 07, 2010 - 16:50
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

"So you're aware of creationism, at least. Have you paid much attention to the varieties of evangelical/fundamentalist/charismatic end-times beliefs, and how those beliefs have been evolving these past few decades?"

Nah, I couldn't possibly know anything until you tell me about it.

#45 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
DianePosted: Apr 07, 2010 - 16:58
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Matt wrote:

The poll results were anything but reasonable

What seems "reasonable" depends on your other sources of information. What is your basis for saying that the poll results did not seem "reasonable" to you?

It is my impression that quite a few beliefs that were once confined to the far right have become greatly popularized these days. That impression is derived from many sources including those listed in the sections on "The growing popularity of grand conspiracy ideology" and "Grand conspiracy ideology and the religious right wing" on this page.

#46 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Apr 07, 2010 - 17:00
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
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I checked out your site, and honestly, I don't think I want to continue a dialogue with you.

You strike me as a humanist zealot, and despite having no spiritual beliefs whatsoever, I find groups like yours to be extreme and counterproductive.

"Whatever the religious right wing is against, we are for!"

Seriously? How juvenile.

#47 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
DianePosted: Apr 07, 2010 - 17:13
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Your impression of me is wrong. I'm not a "humanistic zealot." I'm not even an atheist, let alone one who wants to convert everyone else to atheism. Nor do I seek to convert everyone to any particular spiritual belief either.

I'm an activist for religious freedom for all, and for separation of church and state.

Do you find the latter goals to be "counter-productive"? If so, why?

#48 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
DianePosted: Apr 07, 2010 - 17:22
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Matt wrote:

"Whatever the religious right wing is against, we are for!"

Seriously? How juvenile.

We are for: GLBT rights, abortion rights, quality scientific education, rights of religious minorities, etc.

The slogan is intended to attract people who are incensed by the religious right wing's goals on multiple fronts. I'm sorry that this strikes you as "juvenile."

#49 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
DianePosted: Apr 07, 2010 - 18:20
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For some reason, my earlier link to the Harris poll page doesn't seem to be working. So here again is the link to the Harris site.

#50 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
DianePosted: Apr 07, 2010 - 20:14
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Anyhow, even if the Harris poll's numbers turn out to be greatly exaggerated, it is still evident that, to at least some very significant extent, there has been a massive recent growth in the popularity of grand conspiracy ideology.

Here's my collection of links documenting this:

The growing popularity of grand conspiracy ideology

Grand conspiracy ideology and the religious right wing

  • Articles by political analyist Chip Berlet:
  • More about Pat Robertson:
  • More about Tim LaHaye:
  • More about John Hagee:
  • About Thomas Muthee (Sarah Palin's witchhunting pastor) and other leaders in the same religious movement (New Apostolic Reformation) to which Palin belongs:
  • About some phony "ex-Satanists" who helped popularize "Illuminati" claims among evangelical and Pentecostal Christians in the 1970's:
  • The claims of Mike Warnke and other "ex-Satanists" helped to launch the "Satanic Ritual Abuse" scare of the 1980's and early 1990's. Also they played a key role in popularizing the more occult-oriented versions of "Illuminati" claims among evangelical Christians, especially among Pentecostals and charismatics. (Note that Pentecostals are among the fastest-growing Christian denominations.)

    Grand conspiracy ideology and other right wing movements

    The spread of grand conspiracy ideology into other social milieux

    #51 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
    caseyPosted: Apr 09, 2010 - 16:14
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    All debunkers are COMPLETE AND TOTAL WANKERS!!! IF YOU DID NOT HAVE A VESTED INERTEST IN THE FIRST PLACE YOU WOULDINT WAIST YOUR TIME TO DEBUNK SOMTHING YOU THOUGHT WAS STUPID!!!! GET A LIFE OR CONTINUE AND STILL GET PAID OFF THE CORUPRT GOVENMENT!!! ................ NOY EVERYONE IS STUPID AND BOUGHT BUY SPIN!!!! 316

    NOT ALL OF US ARE DUNB YET!!!

    #52 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
    MuertosPosted: Apr 09, 2010 - 16:16
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    Paid Disinformation Blogger

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    CS Original

    Who do you think is paying me to post here, Casey?

    #53 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
    NorthgroundPosted: Apr 09, 2010 - 16:21
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    Level: 0
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    Edward, please ban Casey, he's spamming the threads with the same retarded message.

    #54 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
    caseyPosted: Apr 09, 2010 - 16:31
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    Level: 0
    CS Original

    OK BAN ME WE WILL ALL ME FREESPEACH FROM NOW ON!!!

    #55 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
    caseyPosted: Apr 09, 2010 - 16:33
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    Level: 0
    CS Original

    FREE SPEACH SHUD BE BANNED!!!!

    #56 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
    anticultistPosted: Apr 09, 2010 - 16:45
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    Brainwashing you for money

    Level: 15
    CS Original

    These foreigners who are conspiracy theorists are funny.

    #57 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
    Agent MattPosted: Apr 09, 2010 - 17:05
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    Genuine American Monster

    Level: 70
    CS Original

    "FREE SPEACH SHUD BE BANNED!!!!"

    Only when spelled wrong.

    #58 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
    Sil the ShillPosted: Apr 09, 2010 - 20:30
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    Level: 9
    CS Original

    "All debunkers are COMPLETE AND TOTAL WANKERS!!! IF YOU DID NOT HAVE A VESTED INERTEST IN THE FIRST PLACE YOU WOULDINT WAIST YOUR TIME TO DEBUNK SOMTHING YOU THOUGHT WAS STUPID!!!! GET A LIFE OR CONTINUE AND STILL GET PAID OFF THE CORUPRT GOVENMENT!!! ................ NOY EVERYONE IS STUPID AND BOUGHT BUY SPIN!!!! 316

    NOT ALL OF US ARE DUNB YET!!! "

    Just be quiet.

    #59 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
    Von KleistPosted: Apr 10, 2010 - 05:57
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    Level: 1
    CS Original

    Casey's Law: "The veracity of any particular statement is directly proportional to the number of exclamation marks following it."

    #60 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]