Skeptic Project

He even questions whether they "even have blueprints". http://www.blogtalkradio.com/zmglobal/2011/04/20/april-20th--the-zm-global-radio--with-federico-pistono</p>

LITERALLY everything that the progressive members suggested from the beginning right up to now, is now being taken on board...

- Interface with other orgs
- Recognising the tensions of the movement as coming from the dogmatic-ness of TVP
- etc etc

Well that's certainly worth considering Matt, yes.

LOL. Peter: "It really raises the question of 'why hasn't anyone supported you for 30 years'? ... It's now quite clear... they just don't like working with others."

HAH. NO. They only like having others work for them.

It's BS [Judas] if you kept track of all of TZM projects all of them have failed and get swept away. This will include what Peter is saying.

^ Which in and of itself is a failure.

It's been like, 3-4 years now. When I turn off my computer, TZM ceases to exist. TZM has failed to become any sort of coherent reality in Realworldistan.

@[Judas] your wrong they have had actually projects including rebuilding a developers team and it never happened after the old one left.

Oh yeah but I'm talking about real-world projects. In that podcast Peter talks about the need for the movement to 'help people who are suffering'. I assume that means people who are homeless, in extreme poverty, suffering from drug addiction, etc,. Online "projects" really mean nothing and are so secondary that it's funny this hasn't been recognised yet. Social orgs MUST have offline presences before online presences to have any influence. Otherwise they aren't really social organisations in the first place, are they?

And yes Omni, you're right. It's sad that it's been since late-2008 and minnimal tangible projects have materialised. There's definitely been failure in that sense. Personally I'm just interested to see if this loss of figure of idolatry will be the shock-to-the-system that'll see ZM membership actually doing real-world stuff.

I mean it really is help in the real world or die now, because there's no "god" to put on a pedestal now.

So we've gone from not helping anyone at all, not even donating to Haiti, to actually doing something? Interesting. Except, of course, doing something takes work, so I don't think many of them will actually do anything.

I guess we're done with the "charity is only a band-aid"?

Can't we wish?

Mormons help people and I have little respect for them. TZM helps people and I'll still call it a conspiracy cult.

^ Mormons seem fake to me no wonder you like them.

^ What gives you the right to call 14 million morons "positively lovely" and why would you have a " soft-spot for them than any other Christian group". Most Mormon families I know in my opinion live oppressed lives yet they seem to be happy all the time when in fact I know their frowning inside. No one can be that happy without drugs.

In the end people will believe in what they believe in and that's ok because everybody is different and that's what makes living life so great.

I'm not defending a religion. Both of you didn't read what I said. Bill thinks I'm saying all Mormons are lovely when I'm talking about "All the Mormons I've ever known"... and you think I'm calling their whole history lovely when I haven't even commented on their theology. I'm well aware of their history. But then again pretty much ALL of Christianity once stood for slavery, and segregation (among other things) so it's pretty darned hypocritical to single out Mormons.

At least Mormons have overcome the idea of 'treating' homosexuals whereas the evangelicals, for example, still natter on quite happily about "un-gaying" people through various means (though I don't think any Church could get away with shock therapy these days).

You bring up the shock therapy and the now-gone Mormon policy on blacks, I think, as though you think I've got no idea that either of them ever existed. I know all about Mountain Meadows, I know all about the history of polygamy, I know pretty much everything (in a glossed over sense) there is to know about Mormonism. I've read the BofM cover-to-cover and many of their summarised theological materials because I've got Mormon friends and I felt I owed it to them, that if I wanted to have a conversation with them about their beliefs that I would understand what they were.

But, at no point in this thread have I 'defended' Mormonism and at no point (especially directed at Bill) have I called all Mormons "positively lovely". Read what I said. I'm talking about the Mormons I personally know.

And just to finish, Matt, fuck you fuck you fuck you fuck you.

People that can't be bothered to work for a living have no money to donate. That leaves volunteering. If they can't get off their collective butt to work to take care of their own, I certainly don't see that happening. It's too much like work.

Oh wow, you excel in art school. I'm impressed!

"That's how I top my technology, graphics and audio engineering classes."

"I'm not in an art school."

Good game Brenton. Good game.

You're ridiculous Brenton, but then again, you always have been.