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Forum - Edward: Regarding Power of Nightmares

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sorryPosted: Jul 15, 2010 - 19:46
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Edward, Eric on IRC said that you reviewed Power of Nightmares and found only one issue - that being with the explanation of Al Qaeda.

Can you elaborate on what you took issue with?

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Edward L WinstonPosted: Jul 15, 2010 - 19:53
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Well, thus far it's not really concrete as to where exactly the name Al Qaeda came from. On the one hand, there is some evidence to say that the US government began using it to refer to Osama bin Laden and his followers/peers and then after 9/11 when bin Laden realized this name was equated to him, he began using it as well. On the other hand, however, bin Laden claims he began using it around 1988 after he and al-Zawahiri came up with it.

I think when people say that "the US government made it up" they're over simplifying it and it often makes people think the US government created the actual entity that is Al Qaeda.

Whether or not bin Laden & Co made it up or they just took the name when they realized that's what the US government was calling them, is really irrelevant, because today it refers to him and his group. People all over the world equate Al Qaeda to bin Laden, even in the Arab world.

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Agent MattPosted: Jul 15, 2010 - 19:57
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Genuine American Monster

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Power of Nightmares doesn't claim that the US government made it up. You would have to really, really stretch the levels of context to interpret it that way.

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sorryPosted: Jul 15, 2010 - 19:58
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The video suggests that the US benefited from labeling Bin Laden and his constituents as a structured network so that they could formally prosecute him for anything anyone in this network attempts.

The video then explains that this wasn't a formal structure, and therefore Bin Laden couldn't be accountable for actions he is not directly connected to.

@Matt - they sure make it sound like the US made it up.

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Agent MattPosted: Jul 15, 2010 - 19:59
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Genuine American Monster

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I really didn't get that out of the video.

I got that the prosecutor pushed the interpretation of RICO to see if he could win a case.

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sorryPosted: Jul 15, 2010 - 20:02
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I'll have to rewind to where he says it, but I think the interviewee who wrote the book, "Al Quaeda" said that the US made it up. Maybe I heard him wrong.

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Agent MattPosted: Jul 15, 2010 - 20:04
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Genuine American Monster

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I've watched PoN quite a few times and I'm pretty sure he goes into the whole RICO thing. It sounded to me like nothing more than a prosecutor's gamble.

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Edward L WinstonPosted: Jul 15, 2010 - 20:11
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President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho: porn star and five-time ultimate smackdown wrestling champion!

Level: 150
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They don't need a name to make a connection like that, it's not a requirement. Regardless of name, it almost certainly could have been done due to the sheer amount of evidence connecting the terrorists to bin Laden and bin Laden to others, as well as his training camps.

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Von KleistPosted: Jul 16, 2010 - 08:07
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Osama on the origin of the name:

"We have one religion, one God, one book, one prophet, one nation. Our book teaches us to be brothers of a faith. All the Muslims are brothers. The name "al Qaeda" was established a long time ago by mere chance. The late Abu Ebeida El-Banashiri established the training camps for our mujahedeen against Russia's terrorism. We used to call the training camp al Qaeda [meaning "the base" in English]. And the name stayed. We speak about the conscience of the nation; we are the sons of the nation. We brothers in Islam from the Middle East, Philippines, Malaysia, India, Pakistan and as far as Mauritania."

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/south/02/05/binladen.transcript/index.html

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sorryPosted: Jul 16, 2010 - 08:49
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What's left then is to figure out if Al Quaeda was ever more than a small band of Osama followers.

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EdPosted: Jul 16, 2010 - 09:14
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Here's a good 911 Myths Article on this Power of Nightmare's issue:

The Al Qaeda name:
http://www.911myths.com/index.php/The_al_Qaeda_name

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Agent MattPosted: Jul 16, 2010 - 09:20
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Genuine American Monster

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"What's left then is to figure out if Al Quaeda was ever more than a small band of Obama followers."

ILL FITE U ON THE INTERNET FOR THAT AARON!

#12 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
sorryPosted: Jul 16, 2010 - 09:22
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Level: 12
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teehee woops

Thanks, Ed.

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NanosPosted: Jul 16, 2010 - 10:10
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Level: 0
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I favour the Asimov link myself:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2002/aug/24/alqaida.sciencefictionfantasyandhorror</p>

Sorry its not a youtube video, but as this isn't TZM, I thought words would be more efficient :-)

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sorryPosted: Jul 16, 2010 - 10:17
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Level: 12
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In 6th grade, I did my science fair project on Newtonian physics. Some time after the fair, my teacher made reference to Newton and asked me to tell the class why he was so important.

I said, "isn't he the one that made cool planet books?"

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GenogzaPosted: Jul 18, 2010 - 23:18
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Life's Too Short

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I just watched this documentary for the first time. Really good insight, even though I was familiar with most of it. I need to show this shit to some of my idiot "conservative" friends. Some of them still actually believe that Al-Qaeda is the super underground largely funded terrorist network we're told it is.

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