Skeptic Project

I have watched both Zeitgeist movies, and read about Venus Project. In my opinion, these are some of the few positive things that are meant truly and solely for the "working" class. They start up discussion forums like this one, where people get to lay down how they feel about our current (and might i add horrific) situation that we are in. They got you (creator of this site) to do mounds of research that you otherwise would have never done. So although you slaughter the movie, it has given you inspiration.

I found very interesting the part about our economic system, which only serves the elite. This is very true. I will not pick apart the movie, for i have felt this way long before i had seen the movie (less than a year ago). Bob Marley once wrote "Only machines make money." And whoever controls those "machines" control that money system. The rest of us our figuratively slaves to the Elite. No chains around my feet, but I have a real job(if they could legally chain me there they might) that actually produces an end product, in other words, i do not make very much money. So, allowing for taxes (which are unconstitutional), food (outrageous prices to eat "real" food, and not the ones that are protected on the Farm Bill(ever wonder why a twinkie was cheaper than broccoli)),my wifes greed (just kidding honey) and my own impudent spending, we have a "decent" life but are not allowed the luxury to do what we would really like and aspire to do. Few of us have jobs/careers that, in our hearts, we truly aspire to do. The system is set up this way. We have to factor in things like which job would create more income for my family, which jobs do not pull me away from my family, and a long list of things which subliminally drives us to accomplish things that we would rather not accomplish. For instance, i work indirectly for our Navy, yet do not agree with the wars that we engage in. How hypocritical am i being? "you have a good job" they tell me, "theres money is defense". That is our society. Defense. We are all becoming shut off to nature, and are taught to fear it(global warming) instead of embrace it, and work with it. Wilhelm Reich found a unifying, universal life energy for which he called Orgone Energy. This energy exists in all of everything that is alive. He was working on liberating all of us "little people", to free ourselves from ourselves, so consequently he was jailed due to some B/S FDA Licensing Law. And in prison, on the day before his release, he died of a "heart attack". Read his work "Listen, Little Man" to get a feel for him.

In present day, he might be labeled a conspiracy theorist. He ponders why, if anything is printed in the newspaper, it has automatic validity without any research but that which was done by the bias reporter (bias because he receives a paycheck from a company, which is headed by some elitist no doubt, who in turns provides campaign money funneled through organizations or what have you to a politcal party, for which churns out bias views). In modern times (Reich was born in 1897), substitute a 52" HD Plasma LCD with 82 "news" channels for the newspaper for which Reich refers to. The aforementioned book does what these movies and projects do...humans are all born equal, so why should a small percentage of the population live extravagantly while millions starve, and even more scrape by? For instance, if we all, that is every single working American, went on strike at the same time, they would feel our power in numbers. There ships would not be built, for which the elite, having no true real life skill other than the management of money, have no idea how to build. Their factories would shut down. And we could gather the streets and demand that congress give al lof our constitutional rights back! All of them! No more taxation without representation. No more frivilous, political-agenda-type spending. No more secrets. No more wars with nations for the purpose of obtaining their resources (how barbaric are we?). No more only rushing to a foreign countries aid when it has subliminal political agendas.

Will we ever seperate our religons, races, abilities and disabilities, and see how we are all alike? We are all in the same struggle to survive, yet we are divided, and therefore weak. So the elite must keep in place religon, race divisions, and every other dividing line amongst the commoners to keep us all in line.

Thanks for letting me rant! Make sure to research Wilehelm Reich for yourself. And look at the sky, its ok to be curious!

Valid point. But the probelm with calling positive, human based movements "utopian" is that we all know there will never be a Utopia, so it is a derrogatory term. If you owned a small business 20 years ago, instead of working for a large corporation like most of us do, and a wal-mart opens up down the street and can beat all of your prices due to shear size, i guarantee you would have a different opinion. SO thats it. If we all fall in line again, close our own businesses (and dreams) and go work at walmart or some other huge corporation than we will have a decent life?

Public education = Bullshit. I do not know numbers, but so much fricking money is spent on war that if some of that was used to revamp public schools to be modern, pay increase for school teachers, etc etc then the system would work better in its current state.

Venus project, i believe, works on the premise that, if every frivolous job is done via technology(machine) that people, freed of frivilty, can be great at what they really want to do. A book i read called "freakonomics" claims that the liberation of women into higher roles in society (Docotor, lawyer, surgeon) led to a decline in public schools due to the fact that these truly smart women decided to go after money, which makes sense because that is the smart thing to do in this society. So thats how things will work themselves out.

Will it work? who knows. But the Venus Project gives us all hope that someone out there is dedicating their time toward something good for humankind, and not just themselves.

Where peolple get twisted is that they are stuck in old ways of thinking. Having no one rule us seems like insanity??!! Seems like the way to go for me.

The Venus Project has an essay on their website called "Beyond Utopia", so I really don't know why people keep making it big deal when others call it a utopia.

My biggest fear is that even so called Christians have lost their humanity, and promote atrosities on others as long as it is not in their face, or on their land. I now fear American military strength when at one time i saw it as a positive thing "for the country". We have to realize that we are not "the country" anymore, and that is the problem. We are not represented by our government. True, we elect our officials, but look at our choices. And then you have Americans voting "because Oprah said to", or "to be a part of history", and not because this person has a reptation for backing the working class. So many soldiers in Iraq know this war is BS, yet they still need to collect that paycheck. If every single one of them went with their gut instinct, there would not be much of a military at all. Think about being a German in the times of Nazi Germany. Would you have "gone with the flow" and helped kill Jews, and be able to provide food for your family? Although metaphorical, it is not too far from trying to democracize a people who never wanted us there in the first place and in the meantime killing countless American soldiers, innocent bystanders and such. But its ok to us, because its in their country and not ours. We are so disconnected from our reality. If you claim to be for your nation, then you claim to be for the only nation that has used a nuclear bomb in war, and on innocent civilians nonetheless. I can not be proud of such brutal behavior.

From the way we consume medication, as if to heal to ailment, you can tell that the American public is fine just to subdue the pain...

you guys really pick things apart, and only analyze bits and pieces of what i said....funny, as you claim that exact same thing as a bad trait of the Zeitgeist movie...why would you act like the people you are criticizing?

Actually Wilbur, what irritates me about being compared to a Nazi is that the Nazis rose to power by promising a utopian idea through the religion of National Socialism. The American government does not function in any way that would allow for a National Socialist takeover, or the implementation of a state sponsored religion based on racist science fiction and voodoo science.

It isn't about anything subliminal. Its just kind of a stupid thing to say. I am not the one pushing a utopian idea, the favorite tool of fascists.

it is all about standing up for what you feel is right inside, as many of us have "lost" our insides. Do not just go with the flow if its not the right thing to be doing.

Back to money real fast and Venus...

Education is lacking because of funding. If more money was spent there, the education system in America would create a smarter society in the future that did not need wars. Instead, we spend it on war, and our kids have teachers like my aunt (trust me, if she can be a teacher, anyone can) and therefore our kids will fight wars and so on and so on...

so if you ruled shit, would you bother this system that does not apply to you. You keep mentioning that you are talking about the middle class, so private schools do not apply. But it does to the elite. And that is why they are, and will be, and stay, the elite, and you and me will stay a little, common man. Harsh reality, but its real.

So being really harsh about postive movements is senseless. Read the Venus Project in full.

>> Education is lacking because of funding.

That's true, but the money has to have some kind of organization and purpose. A lot of times money is just thrown into more testing or more homework, instead of solving real problems.

>> Instead, we spend it on war, and our kids have teachers like my aunt (trust me, if she can be a teacher, anyone can) and therefore our kids will fight wars and so on and so on...

What? Is this Sparta?

>> You keep mentioning that you are talking about the middle class, so private schools do not apply.

Nobody was talking about the middle class. The middle class and working class are two different things. Middle class is a term made up by American capitalists to make others think they're equal to them. The term "middle class" is so broad, you ask anyone who's not rich in the US, they'll tell you they're middle class, no matter how poor they are.

Yeah, the problem is people who rationally deal with life.

What a huge problem. I guess we could be little twerps who start insulting people when they don't get their way on forums.

It's like Tony Robbins and Yoda mixed together, with a dash of Corky from Life Goes On.

>> Sparta? no..are you in denial of how much money is spent on defense?

Nope. But you aren't posing any coherent arguments. And your whole thing about teachers, schools, war... it was like listening to a child speak.

>> But i already preceed your counter to be "we need to defend ourselves"..like mentioned previously, our life is spent in defense

You really haven't read my site and have no idea how I feel about anything. I can already tell by that one single line.

I thought this site was going to be differnt. It is not worth my time...thanks for letting me rant you imbisils though:)

>> Ed, you seem very pretentious to back your govt,

Let me copy/paste it again: You really haven't read my site and have no idea how I feel about anything. I can already tell by that one single line.

>> if you are not a govt agent or something of that nature a syou claim, youdo see why people would come off feeling like this, right?

...

>> You seem to be comfortable with the way things are, yet i doubt this is so.

Let me copy/paste it again: You really haven't read my site and have no idea how I feel about anything. I can already tell by that one single line.

>> Probably the case, you would not hold this discussion is person, as computers has served for many disorders in human to human communication.

Let me copy/paste it again: You really haven't read my site and have no idea how I feel about anything. I can already tell by that one single line.

I was on a radio show talking about my site, specifically Zeitgeist.

>> You are constanly on one of these things, huh?

Well, it is what I do for a living (programming).

>> And that makes you comfortable.

I like camping a lot.

>> You will make claims about nature, that you have read on some other site, instead of go see for yourself? hahahaha

Yes, I spend my time on nature sites, whatever those are, so I can talk about shitting in the woods with other people.

>> I thought this site was going to be differnt. It is not worth my time...thanks for letting me rant you imbisils though:)

Classic conspiracy theorist, take off when you're being questioned. Let's also not forget all of the red herrings about premature ejaculation, prostate problems, being a government agent, not knowing that I'm very anti-government and a technocrat, and a supporter of the Venus Project, oh no, people use computers ...

Yeah, I don't think this site is worth your time, Corky.

I don't think any Zeitgeist Movement member ever uses a computer, they're all outdoor types that aren't overweight and try to apply real change to the world, instead of arm chair debates online about Horus being a sun god.

Edit: Another red herring about spelling...

Come on wilbur22, address some of the arguments we posed against what you said instead of talking about utter shit that has nothing to do with anything. I'd like to see you do it, and do it without more red herrings, or better yet, do it without trying to sound high and mighty and poetic.

Ed: you keep restating that i have not read your website, when this is not true. i read all that i can find to read on you, yet you are cleverly vague in your description about yourself, which would come in handy on a site like this. for instance, you will not even take stand on 9/11 yet you will talk all about it. OK then. that makes no sense.

and no, i did not take you advice and read it...reading all about you was the first thing i did. bit i cold not even find out wat religon - if any - you are. i know your political stand.

because it seems you defend government policy today. For instance, when i said that taxes are not constitutional, you simply put "no they are not" and nothing else...and later i am called a child?

honestly, i did not research everything (or anything) in the Z movie, but i am glad you did, and commend you for it.