Tags: hyperinflation, gold, A look at hyperinflation, and how it is exagerrated [ Add Tags ]
Previous Page [ 1 | 2 | 3 ] |
[ Return to General Discussion | Reply to Topic ] |
Edward L Winston | Posted: Nov 28, 2009 - 10:44 |
| ||||
President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho: porn star and five-time ultimate smackdown wrestling champion! Level: 150 CS Original | Well, you see, for some reason a gold-backed "true capitalist" economy "only creates wealth." And people "only work to pay off their debts;" that is to say, I guess without fiat currency nobody would have to work because nobody would be "in debt" to the Federal Reserve, even though I've never really got a straight answer as to how we're in debt to the Federal Reserve, as we aren't member banks, just regular people. So the answer typically goes back to that we're in debt because of inflation, but that's illogical as you point out advancedatheist. Have you ever considered that your boss may be a member of the NWO? | |||||
#31 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
advancedatheist | Posted: Nov 28, 2009 - 16:52 |
| ||||
Level: 3 CS Original | Funny how the early Soviet Union managed to produce an impressive amount of capital goods in a few years based on central planning. Outside observers in the 1930's noted that Russians went to jobs every day making steel, concrete and machines while the Western countries suffered from mass unemployment. If the USSR had avoided the wealth destruction of the Second World War and the Cold War, by now it might have developed up to a decent standard, but based on a model fundamentally at odds with Western economics. Then the Austrianists with their "calculation problem" would have a lot of explaining to do. I think Austrianists have that explaining to do any way, because modern corporations can centralize and coordinate production and distribution on a literally world wide scale. These companies ignored Austrian economics and just went ahead to figure out how to gather and make effective plans with dispersed and localized knowledge through modern technology. Otherwise, for example, you'd have no way to find out the location of something you've ordered because only the guy with his hands on the package at the time (dispersed and localized knowledge) would know anything about it. Instead you can go online and track the package's location at every change of custody along the way. | |||||
#32 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
Edward L Winston | Posted: Nov 28, 2009 - 18:41 |
| ||||
President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho: porn star and five-time ultimate smackdown wrestling champion! Level: 150 CS Original | Well anytime something is wrong with the current system, they just say "well, this is corporatism, not capitalism." I often bring up that capitalism lead to corporatism, they're fundamentally linked together, I'm not sure how you can avoid having one without the other. | |||||
#33 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
advancedatheist | Posted: Nov 28, 2009 - 19:19 |
| ||||
Level: 3 CS Original | Yet these same people lecture us about "spontaneous orders" and how social complexity arises from human action but not necessarily from human design. If statism and corporatism develop "organically," so to speak, from an originally limited government and a free market, then Austrianists have set themselves against powerful historical forces which nobody controls. Instead they want to blame these trends on bad ideas (i.e., everyone else's but theirs) and conspiracies. | |||||
#34 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
advancedatheist | Posted: Nov 30, 2009 - 08:34 |
| ||||
Level: 3 CS Original | The IRS has reportedly placed a $79,000 lien on Arnold Schwarzenegger's property, which he would have to pay in Federal Reserve Notes. Why does the IRS want all that worthless "thin air" created by the Federal Reserve? | |||||
#35 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
advancedatheist | Posted: Dec 06, 2009 - 20:19 |
| ||||
Level: 3 CS Original | I've just noticed another bit of cognitive dissonance coming from the Austrianists: On the one hand many of them keep up their Chicken Little act about "hyperinflation"; yet on the other hand they say that abolishing the minimum wage laws would solve unemployment because wages naturally "want" to fall below the current artificial levels and clear the market for labor. Uh, doesn't the latter situation -- market pressure for lower wages -- indicate deflation rather than inflation? | |||||
#36 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
scitops | Posted: Dec 06, 2009 - 22:48 |
| ||||
Level: 4 CS Original | What I've often noticed is that Austrians speak about how great private education is, yet gripe about Harvard, Yale, or other Ivy league schools because they don't teach Austrian economics. If they don't like those federal reserve notes, or green tp as many like to call it, then why do they keep it. I'll be more than happy to take it off their hands. | |||||
#37 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
advancedatheist | Posted: Dec 07, 2009 - 08:43 |
| ||||
Level: 3 CS Original | As George Lakoff argues, "framing" makes all the difference. If we say, "The Federal Reserve creates the money we use _to pay our taxes_ out of 'thin air'," that changes the way the brain evaluates the information. Those Goldman Sachs employees certainly don't dismiss their extra bonus money, thanks to the Federal Reserve, as "thin air" while they prepare their tax returns. | |||||
#38 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
advancedatheist | Posted: Dec 07, 2009 - 10:23 |
| ||||
Level: 3 CS Original | >What I've often noticed is that Austrians speak about how great private education is, yet gripe about Harvard, Yale, or other Ivy league schools because they don't teach Austrian economics. In other words, Austrian economists can't compete with mainstream Ph.D. economists in the market for university economics professors. Well, doesn't the market's rejection show that they studied the wrong subject and wasted valuable resources in doing so? Yet Austrianists tend to criticize other college-educated but unemployable people for making bad career decisions. | |||||
#39 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
scitops | Posted: Dec 07, 2009 - 17:33 |
| ||||
Level: 4 CS Original | Oh so many Austrians aren't looking for jobs at universities. For 200 Federal Reserve notes, you can get Marc Faber's investment newsletter, for 50,000 FRN you can invest in Peter Schiff's brokerage firm, and for 2,000 you can have someone from Mises speak at your event. | |||||
#40 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
Edward L Winston | Posted: Dec 09, 2009 - 17:07 |
| ||||
President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho: porn star and five-time ultimate smackdown wrestling champion! Level: 150 CS Original | Considering the von Mises Institute considers Somalia to be an example of Austrianism in action, I'd rather listen to someone from the National Alliance talk about holocaust denial. | |||||
#41 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
advancedatheist | Posted: Dec 09, 2009 - 20:02 |
| ||||
Level: 3 CS Original | >Considering the von Mises Institute considers Somalia to be an example of Austrianism in action Edward didn't make this up: Stateless in Somalia, and Loving It Yet estimates of human development place Somalia near the bottom: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index | |||||
#42 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
scitops | Posted: Dec 17, 2009 - 18:10 |
| ||||
Level: 4 CS Original | Hmm, I just found another problem with the Austrians. They claim that gold is what people should buy because of difficult times ahead, yet the price of gold has typically risen on good data and fallen on bad data during since the recession began. | |||||
#43 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
Edward L Winston | Posted: Dec 18, 2009 - 01:19 |
| ||||
President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho: porn star and five-time ultimate smackdown wrestling champion! Level: 150 CS Original | Jumping on gold now would be insanely stupid. The only reason it's reason as much as it has is because so many people are investing in it. Just because gold "always has value" doesn't mean when you artificially inflate it to hell that the value you've created is real in of itself. | |||||
#44 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
advancedatheist | Posted: Dec 18, 2009 - 16:11 |
| ||||
Level: 3 CS Original | How do gold-obsessives account for the Price Revolution, when gold in Europe lost approximately 5/6ths of its purchasing power over a period of about 150 years? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_revolution</p> And this happened well before anything like a modern central bank, fiat money and fractional reserve lending existed. | |||||
#45 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
advancedatheist | Posted: Dec 18, 2009 - 16:24 |
| ||||
Level: 3 CS Original | How about this for Austrianists' delusions of grandeur: For Civilization, It Is Mises or Bust Replace Mises with your favorite ideologue, and it would make as much sense. For civilization, it is Christ/Marx/Hitler/Fuller/Fresco/Rand/Hubbard/LaRouche/Gore etc. or bust. (I know a guy who says that sort of thing about Lyndon LaRouche, in fact.) These partisans apparently don't understand man's ability to muddle through adversity using his own resources, and without an intellectual or guru telling how to do it. | |||||
#46 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
Edward L Winston | Posted: Dec 18, 2009 - 17:58 |
| ||||
President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho: porn star and five-time ultimate smackdown wrestling champion! Level: 150 CS Original | Someone linked me to a site not long ago, a conspiracy site, that had this extremely long essay about how we must return all the way to hunter/gatherer to survive. Now here's the irony, they were also talking about the evils of population reduction. Perhaps they didn't realize when thinking of such a utopian scheme that during the hunter/gatherer days there were roughly 1 million people on Earth. That's 500 times smaller than the amount they say will be on earth after the coming population reduction. Now who's really evil? | |||||
#47 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
advancedatheist | Posted: Dec 18, 2009 - 18:40 |
| ||||
Level: 3 CS Original | Changing the subject slightly, I've noticed a couple of conflicting stereotypes about atheism and atheists: 1. Atheism made the Soviet Union warlike and oppressive; atheism makes Western Europe pacifist and weak. 2. Atheist men engage in sexual promiscuity; atheist men lack the social skills to find sex partners. (The christians like Vox Day who promote the latter stereotype intend it as a put down. But don't they also believe in sexual abstinence, and shouldn't they commend these atheist men for not fornicating?) | |||||
#48 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
scitops | Posted: Dec 25, 2009 - 00:12 |
| ||||
Level: 4 CS Original | http://www.howestreet.com/articles/index.php?article_id=11950 Here's old Doug Casey ranting about "Slime magazine". It's no wonder he hates them. Time has posted all of their stories some of which feature Doug ranting in the early 80s claiming doom was upon us and that nothing could save us except buying gold (thanks to Edward for the articles). Advancedatheist nails it when he compares Austrians to the Hal Lindsey's of the world. | |||||
#49 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
advancedatheist | Posted: Dec 25, 2009 - 09:59 |
| ||||
Level: 3 CS Original | Casey just doesn't like it that the ruling elite in the U.S. considers Austrianists about as inconsequential as Lyndon LaRouche, unless an Austrianist with some prestige plays along, like Alan Greenspan. They don't want to admit that they've wasted time and energy on promoting an inferior product. | |||||
#50 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
Edward L Winston | Posted: Dec 25, 2009 - 11:43 |
| ||||
President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho: porn star and five-time ultimate smackdown wrestling champion! Level: 150 CS Original | Also, after the current economic troubles, Greenspan admitted to having to rethink his position that "markets solve all problems" and "markets work themselves out." | |||||
#51 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
advancedatheist | Posted: Dec 25, 2009 - 20:34 |
| ||||
Level: 3 CS Original | Someone on another forum claims that Austrianists have done solid work on the theory of the business cycle. Well, the Wikipedia article on business cycles considers that work a minority opinion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_cycle</p> Economic progress didn't even exist until about 250 years ago, with the start of the Industrial Revolution in England, so we may not yet have enough experience with business cycles to understand why they happen. Consider this analogy: It took the efforts of generations of astronomers, across a succession of civilizations, before scientists in the 17th Century could formulate an accurate model of planetary motion. The road to understanding took a detour through Ptolemaic astronomy, which we've long since discarded. By way of analogy, the economics of business cycles might not have left its "Ptolemaic" stage yet. | |||||
#52 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
scitops | Posted: Dec 26, 2009 - 01:34 |
| ||||
Level: 4 CS Original | I have to wonder if the Federal Reserve is the cause of all economic downturn, then why did the United States have recessions before the Federal Reserve? | |||||
#53 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
advancedatheist | Posted: Dec 26, 2009 - 12:57 |
| ||||
Level: 3 CS Original | Well, all those state banks issued too much paper money, which the market gladly accepted even though people could still use gold as money also. The whole "printing money" idea has become obsolete these days. By now most financial transactions happen electronically, yet another technological advance the market has embraced enthusiastically. Do Austrianists want to come out as enemies of that? | |||||
#54 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
scitops | Posted: Jan 25, 2010 - 00:02 |
| ||||
Level: 4 CS Original | I was wondering if Austrian doomsayers like Peter Schiff, Ron Paul, Gary North, Doug Casey, and company really believe their hyperinflation porn or are they just trying to make money? Perhaps there is some middle ground where they believe both (kind of like Robert Mitchum's character in Night of the Hunter who believes stealing, murder, abusing children is God's work). | |||||
#55 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
Agent Matt | Posted: Jan 25, 2010 - 18:08 |
| ||||
Genuine American Monster Level: 70 CS Original | Buy gold! The black helicopters are coming! | |||||
#56 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
Edward L Winston | Posted: Jan 25, 2010 - 20:09 |
| ||||
President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho: porn star and five-time ultimate smackdown wrestling champion! Level: 150 CS Original | They don't seem to realize that one of the main reasons the price of gold is getting so high is because they're speculating the shit out of it. Apparently gold is immune from bubbles. | |||||
#57 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
advancedatheist | Posted: Jan 26, 2010 - 14:38 |
| ||||
Level: 3 CS Original | Can you imagine the hassles of trying to use gold for money in the modern world? Suppose someone tried to wire you some money you urgently need, but the receiving business couldn't honor the draft because it didn't have enough gold coins in the strongbox. | |||||
#58 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
Edward L Winston | Posted: Jan 26, 2010 - 16:35 |
| ||||
President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho: porn star and five-time ultimate smackdown wrestling champion! Level: 150 CS Original | I don't know the logic behind "when the economy collapses, it will be money." Well you can't eat it, you can't drink it, in fact other than making wire, putting in vodka, or stacking neatly, you can't do jack shit with it. Barter would be the only way to work, you'd just be sitting with a bunch of gold around you. | |||||
#59 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
scitops | Posted: Jan 26, 2010 - 17:43 |
| ||||
Level: 4 CS Original | You know I once asked somebody at a Ron Paul booth about why gold is so great to have when the economy collapses. He said when the new currency comes in you will have preserved your net worth. Well that's all fine and dandy, but what are you going to do in between when you have no food, water, or electricity? Advancedatheist: I have wondered how the cashier would give me change when I handed them a 10 oz. bar of gold for a loaf of bread. In fact Bob Moriarty once claimed that gold would be like handing in bills and silver would be the change. On another note, I seem to remember reading one of the Austrian doomsayers talk about how wonderful it would when we could take gold to the supermarket. He even talked about getting whatever tenths of an ounce and getting the change. | |||||
#60 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
Previous Page [ 1 | 2 | 3 ] |