Skeptic Project

They maintain the project by selling bells, am I getting that right?

So Fresco rips of Disney and Arcosanti is already more successful than they are (though I admit I havent looked further than a glance at the website)

How do you find these things Matt! :D

Its not doing anything because TVP is "not about city design" according to Fresco, its about social change which means he can string his followers along for decades without ever doing anything.

I manage a motel just a few miles from there: http://www.creeksidepreserve.com .

I've noticed that Arcosanti has hardly revolutionized the world.

Jacque and company won't follow practical paths like the Acrosanti and Open Source Ecology movements because in their minds this is considered "patchwork" that won't get them to the Final Fantasy world of TVP. Like what Matt mentioned, TVP takes environmental issues unto the fringe side with unrealistic solutions.

My impression of why Fresco (Or perhaps we should just say Roxanne/PJ as Fresco doesn't seem to actually talk much himself on this point that I recal.. in fact, the only memory I seem to have is him saying 'Its up to us to build the future'.. which to me says, build things!) isn't going for practical, is because he has tried it, and found few people willing to help him.

He appears unaware that with the power of the internet today, he can reach further than his own back yard, and get people from all around the world helping him, something he didn't have when he tried decades ago.

Its a crying shame if you ask me, so many helpful people passed through TVP and TZM forums, who wasn't taken advantage of, just left to leave, that so much more could have been achieved if there had been an agenda of practicalness as well for these folk to sink their teeth into.

So, what do Arcosanti do... ?

FX [ a quick google later... ]

Ah, I see they only have a tiny industrial base, a common issue with communities..

What they need to do is copy the Chinese example..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/may/10/china.jonathanwatts</p>

Its what we all need to do..

Only make it more environmentally friendly..

And a few other improvements..

But without a strong industrial base, one is likely to remain just a small blip on the radar and have little real influence.

If these TVP dorks were serious about living a sustainable lifestyle, they could easily go to http://earthship.com/ and plunk some cash down.

But its all about Fresco, Merola and their stupid RBE crap. Not environmentalism, because environmentalism doesn't make them any money.

There are tons of ways to live the sort of lifestyle Zeitgeisters dream about. But its easier to post on forums.

Why would anyone flood Fresco's commune? He forgot to design things like toilets and doors into the plans for them. So even if you could get in, it would probably smell awful.

"Jacque starts talking about how TVP is global"
Well, this is exactly where i got my main concerns while i was running TZM Japan, this so called "globalness" of TVP...

Jacque & PJ always talk about how environment affect human behavior & thinking, but they forget to aply this same argument to themselves:

TZM movies and Venus Project have been created by only a few people, all from the same country (US) where they share the same values, similar religions, relation to money, family or work. No matter how we humen are "all the same" , their message and projects are only the result of their own vision of the world,

In Africa, middle-east, central asia, eastern asia... people share really different values and cultures. I am french, but live in Japan since 10 years and witnesses those differences on a daily basis (I'm not talking about communication issues, i'm a translator )
No matter how "genius" Jacque ideas could be , they won't be understand the same way nor apply in different cultures systems.

Claiming TVP to be a global idea requires (at least) 200 Jacque Fresco from all around the world at its source...this is as logical as it gets :)

Ahaha i hear you on "nothing good on TV anymore!" :)

Tell an average Japanese man that he doesn't have to go to work anymore, that he will be able to spend more time with his family and...he'll just kill himself (lol)

Back to my point, i'm not sure i explained myself very well before (my english is terrible too).
Obviously everybody around the world have the same basic needs, and TVP concept covers it quite well.

It's rather a technical problem: a handfull of people from 1 country cannot possibly generate the solutions to whole mankind problems, nor design a society where anybody from anywhere can fit in.

No matter how many books he read, how long he studied, JF's vision of the world is distorted by his own cultural background prism.

This is an argument only few ever come up with on the critics side. It's not surprising because most of the TZM members or critics are from Americas, Australia or Europe, who roughly have the same judeo-christian cultural roots.

I had interesting talks with the Indian coordinator, people trying to start something in China, Korea, Egypt, Iran, Ethiopia as well...we all come up with the same kind of feeling.

When i (we) tried to explain this , i always got the same kind of reaction:
We must see human as a whole, no countries no divisions...differences are only generated by social environement...everybody have the same basic needs...

Which i completely agree with, but that's not what i'm talking about.
So i go back to "i'm not sure i explained myself very well" and ...deja-vu?

> that's not what i'm talking about.

Could you give some examples ?

Perhaps the means aren't as clear as you thought.

I don't understand how someone can look at something like TVP and honestly believe it is anything more than an old con man's game.

Do they believe in conspiracy theories in India, Japan and Africa?

Maybe that's why nobody there takes the Venus Project seriously.

Yeah, they love 9/11 Twoof and Holocaust denial in Islamic countries. I've heard that some CTs regarding Aun Shirinko (sp?) are popular in Japan but I don't know much about them.