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Forum - Money-less society, progress or regression? - Page 5

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sorryPosted: Jun 29, 2010 - 21:33
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Level: 12
CS Original

Using technology as a solution for all potential problems has to be a fallacy.

#121 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Jun 29, 2010 - 21:33
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

It is, special pleading.

#122 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
AltonPosted: Jun 29, 2010 - 21:34
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Level: 1
CS Original

Technically, people will barter or voluntary choose a service that they see satisfies their needs and interests the best whether it is manual or automatic. And if they use this service exclusively or it is their favorite due to its high reputable value, it can become "special" or "unique" to them.

#123 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
EdPosted: Jun 29, 2010 - 21:34
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Level: 10
CS Original

I don't really get the point you're trying to make. People will barter for services, because their more special than automatically created goods?

I'd still prefer voluntary services, I can pay for a massage or I can get my back rubbed by my lady, personally, I enjoy the latter more.

You really are looking at this in a very self focused simplistic way safe in the knowledge that you never have to actually test any of this for real, ie. you have not thought this through at all.

If you followed through with my examples you'd see that.

How would you make a film in this society? Explain that to me.

#124 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Jun 29, 2010 - 21:35
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

What if I wanted to replicate water balloons filled with sarin?

#125 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
CyborgJesusPosted: Jun 29, 2010 - 21:38
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Level: 6
CS Original

"How would you make a film in this society? Explain that to me."

1) Write script
2) Look for amateur actors lying around all day
3) Tell them that making a movie with you would be more fun than lying around all day
4) Make movie
5) Let robots do post
6) Publish

#126 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Jun 29, 2010 - 21:39
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

I think your movie would probably suck.

#127 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
EdPosted: Jun 29, 2010 - 21:44
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Level: 10
CS Original

2) Look for amateur actors laying around all day
3) Tell them that making a movie with you would be more fun than laying around all day

They hate your idea, not worth bothering with. Or, they want a different part. You really want a specific actor but cant get them, maybe only crap actors will agree to do it.

Now what?

4) Make movie

How?

You need assistant directors, director of photography, visual artists, make up artists, CGI FX, stunt coordinators, set designers .... just think of every artistic role.

5) Let robots do post

Too bad, editors have an artistc skill you require you also need sound design, foley, composer, musicans, sound engineers etc etc

6) Publish

Too bad you're still stuck holding the script no one likes or you cant get the people you want to work with you.

Whats left?

#128 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
sorryPosted: Jun 29, 2010 - 21:45
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Level: 12
CS Original

Maybe movies wouldn't be interesting when everyone's blissfully laying around with endless amounts of food, water, shelter, and sluts.

#129 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Jun 29, 2010 - 21:53
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original
#130 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
sorryPosted: Jun 29, 2010 - 21:57
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Level: 12
CS Original

TZM members believe that would be better than this: http://veritaslibertas.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/obama_slavery.jpg

#131 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Jun 29, 2010 - 21:59
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

Adding you to the stab in dark corners list.

#132 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
EdPosted: Jun 29, 2010 - 21:59
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Level: 10
CS Original

Maybe movies wouldn't be interesting when everyone's blissfully laying around with endless amounts of food, water, shelter, and sluts.

I do like hot sloots.

#133 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
CyborgJesusPosted: Jun 29, 2010 - 22:00
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Level: 6
CS Original

"They hate your idea, not worth bothering with. Or, they want a different part. You really want a specific actor but cant get them, maybe only crap actors will agree to do it."

Your idea probably sucks.

Try something new, rewrite the script or create a cartoon to help explain your vision.

"You need assistant directors, director of photography, visual artists, make up artists, CGI FX, stunt coordinators, set designers .... just think of every artistic role."

I don't know many people who enjoy lying around all day more than achieving something. I tried it myself, it really starts to suck after a few weeks.

So, when people get sick of doing nothing, why wouldn't they want to contribute to something like that?

#134 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
sorryPosted: Jun 29, 2010 - 22:04
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Level: 12
CS Original

If money causes stress, could RBE cause apathy?

#135 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Jun 29, 2010 - 22:06
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

How does law enforcement work in an RBE? Can I just stab people in dark corners with replicated knives with impunity?

#136 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
sorryPosted: Jun 29, 2010 - 22:07
(0)
 

Level: 12
CS Original

Yeah, but you won't want to.

#137 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Jun 29, 2010 - 22:08
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

Why not?

#138 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
sorryPosted: Jun 29, 2010 - 22:09
(0)
 

Level: 12
CS Original

Because you'll have access to as many fuckbots as you want.

#139 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
CyborgJesusPosted: Jun 29, 2010 - 22:10
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Level: 6
CS Original

They'll remove any reason for you to stab people. As long as "any reason" equals money.

#140 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
EdPosted: Jun 29, 2010 - 22:13
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Level: 10
CS Original

So, when people get sick of doing nothing, why wouldn't they want to contribute to something like that?

Imagine you're a composer, why would you want to work on a project you dont believe in?

Today you can pay the best people regardless if how good your ideas are or if they even care about it, in your scenario you have to make everyone you want to be in your film and help create your film LOVE it or else tough titties? Is that it?

You much of a movie fan? It doesnt sound like it.

#141 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Jun 29, 2010 - 22:21
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

But what if I just simply want to stab people for the sheer enjoyment of stabbing them?

#142 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
sorryPosted: Jun 29, 2010 - 22:24
(0)
 

Level: 12
CS Original

Then you and the pedophiles will be re-educated.

#143 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
CyborgJesusPosted: Jun 29, 2010 - 22:25
(0)
 

Level: 6
CS Original

"Today you can pay the best people regardless if how good your ideas are or if they even care about it, in your scenario you have to make everyone you want to be in your film and help create your film LOVE it or else tough titties? Is that it?"

So, today you can pay people to make movies they hate, or just create soulless crap like "Transformers", while in the future you actually have to inspire people to work with you and have some good ideas. That's a letdown.

"You much of a movie fan? It doesnt sound like it."

I simply think, if you really want to make a movie, people will notice and listen. If you don't, they won't.

#144 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
EdPosted: Jun 29, 2010 - 22:31
(0)
 

Level: 10
CS Original

So, today you can pay people to make movies they hate, or just create soulless crap like "Transformers", while in the future you actually have to inspire people to work with you and have some good ideas. That's a letdown

If you have to rely on extremes to make your point maybe your point isn't that strong

I simply think, if you really want to make a movie, people will notice and listen. If you don't, they won't.

I respectably think that you dont have much understanding of what goes into making a film

#145 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Jun 29, 2010 - 23:00
(0)
 

Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

I don't think this is a serious economic philosophy. This sounds like something somebody came up with while stoned.

#146 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
NanosPosted: Jun 30, 2010 - 01:48
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Level: 0
CS Original

> Evolution. We are moving forward, not backwards.

http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/IQ/1950-2050/</p>

Though it could be due to:

http://bps-research-digest.blogspot.com/2005/12/self-discipline-matters-more-than-iq.html</p>

> We suggest another reason for students falling short of their intellectual
> potential: their failure to exercise self-disciplineā€.

> an RBE and a moneyless society

I think one of the reasons its considered doable, is that a family unit is like that, kids can have whatever they want and don't have to work for it..

In my day, if you wanted something, your parents forced you to do choors!

> how would a moneyless society work?

I reckon you could have a society with less money, for example, if all housing was provided by the state for free, paid for by income taxes, it would involve less money as far as the people living in the houses are concerned, they no longer have to pay rent like they used to. (And it saves on admin I imagine..)

> Produce most if not all things in abundance and money has no real purpose anymore.

I do think we can do the 'most' things, eg. we might provide housing, electric, food, transport, but not say Ipods..

> comes at a cost and will have to be limited.

Agreed, I see rationing as a needed thing.

> Too bad you're still stuck holding the script no one likes or you cant get
> the people you want to work with you.

That reminds me of how often on forums, there are a few, sometimes just one person that wants to get something done, and everyone else is sitting around not helping!

> Your idea probably sucks.

Its probably not the idea, its just because the majority of people are lazy..

> I don't know many people who enjoy lying around all day more than
> achieving something.

I've known whole neighbourhoods like that..

> I tried it myself, it really starts to suck after a few weeks.

I'm often restless, why just last night I woke up around 2am and started drawing out solutions to collasping tubing for my solar vehicle and possible reverse gear ideas using spherical gearing.

The benefit I see in the future, which is with us today, is that those very few people that do want to work on a project, can more easily find themselves, and that making that process easier globally, is something that interests me to do. (And why I hang around in so many forums to bump into said people who are still hard to find!)

I do think a volunteer work system can work in practice, once automation is high enough.

#147 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
oreolvrsPosted: Jun 30, 2010 - 15:07
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Level: 1
CS Original

About movies my sisters works in the theatre and alot of the people largely do it because its their interest some are pretty good and get paid next to nothing.
"I don't know many people who enjoy lying around all day more than achieving something. I tried it myself, it really starts to suck after a few weeks." - I agree sitting around doing nothing can drive you insane after a while.
Im sure actors particulary celebrity actors would welcome an RBE since movies etc would to them be more about quality not quantity.They could live more varied lives and get degrees in science or different areas of the arts and not be whoring themselves by making the blockbuster garbage that proliferates our society.Perhaps they might improve their skills.The same geos for tv perhaps people in the business wouldnt be obsessed with ratings and try and produce good content.With a change in values seeking your fifteen minutes of fame will no longer be a goal.As for the issue stated earlier on the capenter issue perhaps people will want to learn such skills or culinary skills because it gives them a sense of achievement or because making something using those skills for someone in particular would be a sign of affection/love etc.Sure the same product could be mass produced but the receiver would understand that it was created with emotions attached.

#148 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
domokatoPosted: Jun 30, 2010 - 20:12
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Level: 4
CS Original

I agree with Cyborg in this regard. I think artistic projects especially would still get done (hey, now that there's no money, let's all waste tons of resources making my probably shitty vision a reality!).

What I'm worried about is the more critical stuff that no one really wants to do but that needs to be done anyway.

Also, without money, there's no way to create incentives in accordance with supply and demand, so it just makes it harder to supply a demand, like the demand for janitors and fast food workers. And maybe even production assistants.

#149 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Jun 30, 2010 - 20:18
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

"I agree with Cyborg in this regard. I think artistic projects especially would still get done (hey, now that there's no money, let's all waste tons of resources making my probably shitty vision a reality!)."

Unless everyone is going to be doing performance art, materials will be needed for these artistic projects.

Who produces the materials? Who makes the paint? Who makes the brushes?

#150 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]