Skeptic Project

"Sure, it wouldn't work with people who think if something is free, you should take it whether you really want it or not, that's one of the reasons I'd set a few more steps in between now and then."

How exactly do you "fix" that?

"There would still be scarcity even if you had a hypothetical replicator that could give you more or less exact copies of items. There would still be unique items and services that would create a need for bartering and as soon as that happens it all goes to shit."

Two problems I have with that:

1) If goods can be replicated, they can't really be unique. "Services" is too unprecise to really comment on it, but odds are that if a service can't be copied and simulated, you'll have to persuade people to work with, the same way you'll persuade a girl to live with you today, or persuade a bunch of people to make a movie with you.

2) Even if there's a small amount of scarcity, I see no reason to assume that a small black market will have any broad impact on society as a whole.

CyborgJesus,

1. Please read back I discuss various examples.

2. In a vision like Fresco's a small black market cannot exist. All scarcity must be removed or that leads to corruption.

And what would you barter with in such a society? What if you couldn't provide what that person wanted? Then its essentially the same as a monetary society where you can't AFFORD what the person wants, but in this case you'll probably NEVER be able to afford it since the only thing worth bartering will be unique special items or services.

There needs to be a new logical fallacy for relying on Star Trek technology to prove a point.

There can be even uniqueness among replicators since the producers of them will have their own preferences as far as affordability, quality, design, etc. In addition, the materials used in these replicators to produce things aren't infinite.

As I said if you can type into a computer 'roast dinner' then its easy and simple. People will get used to it, its not special anymore. But someone creating really good home cooked food with real ingredients? That's still special and I think would only become even MORE special if what you're suggesting actually existed.

There's a reason why you may be able to go to a restaurant and order food today that isn't as special as a really well made home cooked family meal, and that's today where real people still cook food in restaurants!

I mean really, whats more impressive? If someone paid money for some item to give to you, or if someone had crafted it with their own hands? If someone pressed a button a computer and created an item for you, or if they spent time lovingly creating it themselves?

"Joke aside, if I build a society with free food, shelter, health care, education, recreational activities, and consumer goods, I could seriously care less about somebody trading embryos for diamonds in a dark corner somewhere."

What if I want to stab you in a dark corner.

Would that bother you?

They don't care about kids. They're grown in tubes and shit.

@Ed...I'm actually agreeing with you. My point with my statements you quoted was even among replicators, there will be uniqueness where certain replicators will be viewed special and better with certain people. Moreover, people will have to even barter or purchase such replicators and its materials in some form and these replicators still wouldn't be able to produce everything and may have to compete against traditional production and special/rare items.

Odds are they wouldn't, which is why I think that the argument is nonsense to begin with.

How about you use the examples I give?

@Ed...I'm actually agreeing with you. My point with my statements you quoted was even among replicators, there will be uniqueness where certain replicators will be viewed special and better with certain people. Moreover, people will have to even barter or purchase such replicators and its materials in some form and these replicators still wouldn't be able to produce everything

I see what you're saying but in Frescos world it would all be the same "company", there would be no need to have different standards of replicators.

Of course now we have to debate how reasonable it is that everyone can have the best most up to date technology at the same time, but since this whole idea is based on a hypothetical to begin with I think it would be kind of silly to go down that route :D

BUT WHAT IF YOU REPLICATE ALL THE REPLICATORS OMG

What if you replicated a replicator that was inside another replicator replicating another replicator?! !!

So what if someone wants a fuckbot that looks like a six year old? Do they get it because morality isn't scientific?

But what if your lady got really fat?

Matt: asking the hard-nosed questions.

Well what do you think happens when you lay around all day?