Skeptic Project

>>It's part of our evolution. Convenience, and getting things done faster. The same way a car gets us to work, and a plane takes us around the world.

Ultimately we will evolve past money/the monetary system just as we did with those that have come before it. For the time being, money is the best we have until/or something else better comes along.<<

This was the first part before I delved into that.

If you feel we are stuck forever with system we currently use, please elaborate.

You have to ask yourself are we better people today then we were as cavemen? Technologically you can say yes, but presence of mind and true happiness? Are we happier as a people?

People would have also died before they were 30, would that make you happy?

And the reason why people could function without money is because it was only VERY small communities. It can't work in larger societies. Nevertheless even in the societies you are talking about there was still barter.

Frescos society mandates that there be no WANT for anything no need for any barter whatsoever. That is impossible as I have said.

>>People would have also died before they were 30, would that make you happy?<<

Again, this is perception. And obviously not. Just as if people 100 years from now expand their life spans by about 50 more years. Obviously most people want to live longer.

>>And the reason why people could function without money is because it was only VERY small communities. It can't work in larger societies. Nevertheless even in the societies you are talking about there was still barter.<<

I never said anything about no bartering. There's a difference. We're a tribal species.

>>Frescos society mandates that there be no WANT for anything no need for any barter whatsoever. That is impossible as I have said.<<

And I agree completely. I never stuck up for Fresco or TVP or any of that. It's not even relevant to me right now because we don't have the technology, nor the drive for anything like it at this point.

>>This is unsubstantiated. I can similarly claim that we'll move beyond DNA. Needs supporting evidence. Or at least an argument to back it up.<<

You're comparing apples to oranges here. There's quite a difference between a SYSTEM and our biological makeup.

There is no evidence, which is why this is all special pleading and not logical.

No, I would call that a red herring.

Again, this is perception. And obviously not. Just as if people 100 years from now expand their life spans by about 50 more years. Obviously most people want to live longer.

My point is these are small communities that had very little technology and very little medical understanding. These communities you're talking about still BARTERED, bartering is still a form of money. In these communities there's a lot less to barter with and barter for, but it can work because what you can use to barter is actually doable. You want someone elses fish they caught, they can help you catch some more fish tomorrow, or they can give you a piece of deer or something. Its simplistic, very simplistic... that's why it can work.

I never said anything about no bartering. There's a difference. We're a tribal species.

You did saying something about bartering, as I said, because bartering is still a form of a monetary system. You do some work and someone gives you some food, you can exchange some of that food for something else you want or you can go work and get what it is you want. Bartering IS basically money. You cannot therefore talk about a system with no money while including bartering.

. It's not even relevant to me right now because we don't have the technology, nor the drive for anything like it at this point.

You talked of an RBE and a moneyless society, lets start with hypotheticals. I maintain, as I said, that even if we got to the point where we were so technically proficient that we could create anythng people wanted with a Star Trek style replicator that the no money system still wouldnt work. It wouldnt work because it ignores fundamentals of how humans interact and there is simply no way to engineer that out of people the way people like Fresco suggests. Its obvious why because he doesnt understand art, for a start.

Would there be film making in an RBE? Maybe you could explain how people can go about making films in this society with no money and no therefore no bartering. Because as soon as bartering occurs in a society that has advanced to a certain point a form of money rather than actual "things" becomes inevitable.

NO ITS EVIDENCE OF HERF DERF

Bartering isn't a monetary system. It's an economic system, but not a monetary system. For that you need a medium of exchange like gold.

Bartering isn't a monetary system. It's an economic system, but not a monetary system. For that you need a medium of exchange like gold.

Sorry, you're correct, it is an economic system.

Semantic point, the argument is the same.

People working for literal food vs people working for money to buy the food.
People bartering with actual goods for other goods vs people bartering with money for goods.

Because then I would have the same chair as you and I want to be special.

Having a currency changes things a lot. It allows for exchange between people who wouldn't have otherwise needed each other's goods. It also allows for things like banks. In fact, money is probably the reason society has been able to grow so big. Without it, things would just be too cumbersome. Now I'm not sure what your point was or what mine is so I'll just stop there

An RBE society would utterly stifle the arts.

@Aaron,

No, you get the Beth Ditto model fuckbot.

I know, I was kidding. You make a good point about handmade goods probably gaining in value and thus demand though

Matt - thankfully, there'd be no law for stuffing Ditto down your throat. If I can't have Hayek, you all die.