Skeptic Project

I mean, all I gather is that they think previous economies have been the result of greed and corruption. Hence their problems with "synthetic scarcity." And then you can see how easily TZM moves into TVP. Its basically an argument that the powers-that-be created economies for their own sake.

It wouldn't surprise me. Well, it would. Because that would mean he reads.

maybe this will help with a good definition of RBE

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=The+Venus+Project

1. The Venus Project 33 up, 6 down
buy the venus project mugs, tshirts and magnets
The last hope for humanity as a whole. The Venus Project (TVP) presents a bold, new direction for humanity that entails nothing less than the total redesign of our culture. Simply stated, a resource-based economy that uses our existing resources instead of money and provides an equitable method of distributing these resources in the most efficient manner for the entire population. It is a system in which all goods and services are available without the use of money, credits, barter, or any other form of debt or servitude. Watching the free online movie: Zeitgeist Addendum will provide you a better detailed understanding of what The Venus Project truly has to offer www.thevenusproject.com www.thezeitgeistmovement.com www.zeitgeistmovie.com
The Zeitgeist Movement is the activist arm of The Venus Project

"Money is just another form of physical slavery" -Jacque Fresco - Founder of TVP

"No one is born with greed, prejudice, bigotry, patriotism and hatred; these are all learned behavior patterns." - Jacque Fresco

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Not sure that helped much. I'm going to have to go with what Matt said on a post, "Money is only a bad thing when you don't have any.".

Why do i hate jacque fresco ?

It is because I learnt to hate the fucker

I found this photo of different sects of libertarianism:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ZIDZKrVb3LQ/SsJBqkWZkjI/AAAAAAAADRo/LId9zHOL-xs/s400/libertarianism.gif</p>

"natural resources are common good" falls under traditional anarchism.

I've started a multi-installment critque of RBE. Its not largely historical, but I will be examining some quantitative aspects later on. Anyway, read if you want:

http://falknerslegend.tumblr.com/post/761903644/a-baseless-theory-part-1</p>

I am maintaining my assesment from this thread on why RBE is not Marxism, but you'll see that I identify a Marxist foundation in something TVP writes. These pieces will focus on TVPs own words as well as TZM involvement.

Great article.

Hi guys, check this link on the Mars Project, 3 parts but informative in a humorous way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5HNXNXUzz8

@TeeZedem

I have, and I agree with your assessment. I think also a lot of people think of his work outside of the context it was written, which is in that of the cold war. I don't think many people, especially conspiracy theorists and neoconservatives, really understand how different the world is now without the USSR.

> "the people who work the factories should own them"

Makes me think of employee profit sharing companies, as I reckon that is the way to go as a step in the right direction.

Thoughts ?

But is it likely to be a successful one.. ?

Hello to all,
I would like to start a friendly debate with Falkir for start, I think it will be quite interesting and entertaining, then we can engage other people arguments.

I read your article on RBE (baseless theory), which I found I bit more propagandistic than I would like, but that’s ok, its not easy to make a propaganda free statemenst, I can’t make it either. At first I admit that I found it pretty nice, but when debunking it, it seemed… well, quite poor (?). I hope that the absence of a real time debate over my counter arguments is the reason for that, as it seems that this document is the most serious one (that’s a compliment!)

I have to state that I am not a Zeitgeist follower, neither a VP follower. I am interested in RBE exclusive.

So… I would like to ask all other members to limit the debate in just me and falkir, sending pms is ok, I don’t know if that is ok with the rules of this forum, supposing it is and supposing that you are active (Falkir), I am giving it a go!

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The title: RBE is a baseless theory.

Are you being poetic or are you really into this?
If you are being poetic then the title is propaganda.
If you are not, then I believe you are false.
That is because RBE shares much with Marxist theory which is not a “baseless theory”.
If you believe that Marxism is a “baseless theory” then you must know:

There is no such thing as a “baseless theory”!

Every theory accepts certain axioms: Marxism does, capitalism does, geometry does, even logic is based on axioms. Axioms are necessary tools of thinking, and are essential for a theory. A theory cannot exist without axioms. If there are no axioms then it is not a theory. It’s a fact! (Supposing it is not false)

*Axiom is a statement that cannot be verified or rejected because of knowledge limitations.
*geometry axiom is that: two parallel keep steady distance and never meet (Euklides, the man that invented geometry had written: “I pray to god for that to be true”!)
*The logic axiom is that: something cannot “be” and “not be” at the same time. (Aristotle never admit it to be an axiom though!)
*Some Capitalism axioms were (they are not anymore) that production must raise infinite, humanity must dominate nature and profit is a motive for labor.

What there is instead is a “false theory”. A false theory is a theory that use or produce statements that are not true.

If you are ok with these then we should find the false arguments of RBE. If you are not okay with it, give me your arguments.

Look, you expose exactly what I mean by RBE being a "baseless theory" implicitly. I agree that RBE shares a great deal with Marxism and even Socialism, but as you will see from VTV's response, these similarities are outright denied by RBE. Indeed, Marxism is a formulated program, but it has some glaring deficiencies. I term RBE "baseless" because its formulation has either refused its genealogical ties to preexisting philosophies, or it has yet to recognize it. This, in turn, makes it prone to a great deal of criticism and has further resulted in the theory not being well formulated or open to meaningful discourse. I'd also question you against the use of "propaganda" consider that I am not a state power, nor am I willfully distorted the truth to change anyones mind. At most you can accuse me of bias. As for the facts against RBE, they are everywhere on these message boards. What I set out to do was show that RBE had genealogical ties to better philosophical programs and that the theory itself is inept at either addressing or recognizing these ties. When I say "baseless" i literally mean that it does not have a sufficient base from which to draw on. RBE is, by all accounts, riddled with holes both in logic and its grasp of social and technological realities.

That is because RBE shares much with Marxist theory which is not a “baseless theory”.

It is when you interpret it as a solution for economic problems. Marxism is fairly good at describing what the problem with capitalism is, and that's a good start, considering that most books looking for economic progress fail to do even that.

But Marx never went beyond that, he died before finishing das Kapital.

If you want to see some form of new economic system, you'll have to go from analyzing what is wrong to discovering what is better, and neither the Marxists nor TVP have been able to do so. It all relies on illogical band-aids like blank slate theory or overconfidence in technological progress.

No alternatives? Didn't you see their plan to use tonka toys to build plastic apartment buildings?