Skeptic Project

>> Fair enough. What did you do to donate your time to charity?

Your initial reply about my scepticism concerning your real contributions to society made it sound like you were Mr. Peace Corps. I'd like to know what exactly it is you have done for charity. You claim to be all about saving the world. I just want to know what steps you've taken to really do something about it. <<

I really think that a awareness campaign does count as a charity, because there's really only a small difference between it and a petition campaign such as those of Amnesty International to free various political prisoners and so forth (one example of charity work I personally have been involved in when possible).

One example of an initiative I've applied to be involved in is http://www.theROADTRIP.com.au/</p>

I've also done the 40 Hour Famine (http://www.worldvision.com.au/ourwork/Solutions/40HourFamine.aspx) before, and thus facilitated the gaining of funds for the treatment of poverty.

I've also worked on a few 'community projects' and personally raised hundreds of dollars for my school back when I was about 11 years old.

I'm all for community projects under the banner of the ZM, Technocracy, TVP, or any other organization. One thing I'd love to see is an international community garden collective (perhaps there is already existing such an organization but I've yet to come across it).

As Nanos, a member on the ZM forums, has highlighted: there are government funds just waiting for us if we were to get up off our asses and apply for them. The thing is that such a thing requires high organization and specific planning - two things the Movement is not facilitating at all at this time. But I see no reason why Chapters cannot and will not start on such projects in the near future.

@Edward:
By Matriarchy I'm referring to the terminology of economist Bernard Lietar, and referenced by Ellen Brown (see the section 'When Money Could Grow'): http://www.webofdebt.com/excerpts/chapter-5.php

Okay, so why the insult at me?

@Matt:

You asked for personal examples, so I gave them.

A few examples of what I have done in my life has no relation to the relevance of Technocracy.

@Brenton:

Yeah it has a lot of bearing when you make statements like this:

"I work with every decent organization I have the breath in my lungs, health and time to do so including such groups as Amnesty International and 'MakePovertyHistory'."

That is pretty much a flat out lie.

This thread is getting excedingly directionless. I suggest that Matt calms down, and Omni-Science gets back on the topic that everyone else is talking about or make a new thread if you have some kind of point to make.

@Sky
So really, what is the problem you have with TVP? why do you see it as no different from any other "Utopian cult"

Sky's right, let's get back to talking about The Venus Project or move it to another thread. If there's too much "motha' fuckin' ruckus", I'm going to have to close this thread.

@Sky:

I'm pretty calm.

When someone tells me they have a grand vision for how society should be run, I think its pretty important to ask what they've done to try and achieve that grand vision. In my experience, people involved in utopian movements generally don't really do much aside from digital communications.

Okay so what do you think of it as?

aside from a cult of personality based on Peter Joseph?

>> When someone tells me they have a grand vision for how society should be run, I think its pretty important to ask what they've done to try and achieve that grand vision. <<

Every step in the direction toward right human relations is a step toward a 'grand vision'. Be that step a spiritual (value oriented), political, philosophical, technological or a wider social one. Much like doing a puzzle.

>> People who flock around some charismatic oddball who claims that he has the answers to all the world's problems if only people weren't so damn stupid. <<
It's not Fresco, nor Joseph, nor 'The Venus Project'. It's the ideas within, which are so obviously not uniquely Jacque's. It's the subject of his life's influences, seemingly most prominently Technocracy (http://www.technocracy.org/).
Which is, of course, not a cult.

Well you've got a puzzle with 7 billion pieces and you only know how 36,000 or so fit together. Did I mention this puzzle is a 4 dimensional puzzle?

@Brenton:

So you're saying that the Zeitgeist Movement or Venus Project could operate just as effectively without Fresco or Joseph?

Every major movement needs an icon to some degree

Be it a person or symbol

key words: Some degree

I think that's the central argument for democratic centralism, but we learned from Marxism-Leninism that vanguards with "icons" tend to be corrupted and lose track of what their goals are (helping the working class).

The best bet is to have absolutely no icon, cult of personality, etc. Have a set of goals that people collectively more or less agree on.

Edit: (What Brenton said)

>> The best bet is to have absolutely no icon, cult of personality, etc. Have a set of goals that people collectively more or less agree on. <<
And therein lies the goal of establishing right human relations. Which is something no one really talked much about until the United Nations, which as I've said on a news article on flu pandemics on your blog, is an organization that just doesn't get enough credit.
Unfortunately the UN aim is softened a little but and it really just serves as a "forum for the nations" at this stage. Which is still great, but it could go further.

@Matt:
Organization takes time. Especially when your aim is global unity.