Skeptic Project

By "organic" I mean something which happen spontaneously, without any deliberate plan to make it happen, especially without the coercive sorts of plans favored by social engineers in governments.

For example, nobody planned the collapse of religious belief in most developed democratic countries where people have the freedom to believe whatever they want, unlike the planned suppression of religiosity in communist states. That happened organically, apparently as a side effect of the combination of scientific education (especially about human evolution), affluence and the creation of social safety nets which protect the middle class. (Refer to Gregory S. Paul's research.)

As another example, consider the Harry Potter and Twilight fads. Nobody planned those nuisances either; millions of youngsters read those novels and organically created the fan base, and the demand for more novels, films and paraphernalia, from the bottom up through the market process.

I suppose the Zeitgeist fad has an organic character as well. Nobody had to download those videos, believe their urban legends about religion, 9-11 and central banking, and discover Jacque Fresco on his deathbed; millions of people (though I've probably overstated the actual number) who've never met each other did that on their own, thanks to the internet. But that doesn't mean that Fresco's fantasy will organically turn into a new social movement to transform the world for the better because, frankly, Fresco lacks the goods.

"And you base that on what? Using buzzwords that mean nothing, and assuming that establishing right human relations is impossible and therefore it's a 'utopian' idea.
What a load of fucking bullshit."

Fuck you, kid. What do you do to make the world a better place besides post about this stupid shit so you can feel important?

How much of your time and money do you donate to charity? Probably none and none, just like your phony gurus Joseph and Fresco.

@Matt: >> Fuck you, kid. What do you do to make the world a better place besides post about this stupid shit so you can feel important?

How much of your time and money do you donate to charity? Probably none and none, just like your phony gurus Joseph and Fresco. <<

I work with every decent organization I have the breath in my lungs, health and time to do so including such groups as Amnesty International and 'MakePovertyHistory'.

I would add that The Zeitgeist Movement and The Venus Project are really 'charities' in their own right anyway. The suppression of technologies and the unequal spread of material resources is a human rights issue.

Why is it that everyone who gets in a discussion about The Venus Project, and who is fervently against it (without stating their arguments) ends up attacking the person who is arguing in favor? I see this time and time again, and only over the internet would people dare attempt use of such low tactics.

@advancedatheist: >> By "organic" I mean something which happen spontaneously, without any deliberate plan to make it happen, especially without the coercive sorts of plans favored by social engineers in governments. <<

I feel like you essentially supported the direction of the ZM with this contention, at least to some extent. Before I get into that I would also add that your 'estimation' of millions is likely accurate because there's pretty much nowhere I can go where people of the younger-middle age generations don't have some idea of what The Zeitgeist Movement (and I mean the Movement and not the movies) is about.

Organic to you, it seems, meaning the arrival of some form of 'change' (or insert other word there) that does not occur through enforcement upon an unwilling population. In other words, it happens as 'democratically' as possible - yes?

>> I would add that The Zeitgeist Movement and The Venus Project are really 'charities' in their own right anyway. The suppression of technologies and the unequal spread of material resources is a human rights issue.

That's pretty insulting to real charities helping real people. If what you say qualifies a group as a charity, even the Communist Party USA fits that description.

>> No one suppressed Fresco. He just never did anything but paint pictures and play with toys to amuse people like yourself with more good intentions than brains.

I'd agree with that. Fresco's squandered his life. I often say that I view him as an artist and dreamer, not someone with real, practical solutions. Even if you offer practical solutions, like suggesting building a gemothermal energy plant and using that to build a community to show that your ideas work in reality, it's like a cat in the corner "No, we're spreading the word!" Ideologies are dead, you have to prove what you say now, or be right-wing which requires no evidence for success. I don't know of many anarchists that are as idealistic as the Zeitgeist Movement members, as if people are simply going to wake up and see "The Truth!" and follow you.

As I've said before, show single moms how they can better care for their families, provide free childcare to them, and start community doctors and hospitals, then you'll see success. This is why Hezbollah is successful, not because they "fight the man!" but because they provide real solutions to the problems of the people, regardless of how extreme their views are.

Brenton writes:

Organic to you, it seems, meaning the arrival of some form of 'change' (or insert other word there) that does not occur through enforcement upon an unwilling population. In other words, it happens as 'democratically' as possible - yes?

Democracies don't enforce changes on unwilling minorities? Since when?

At least market-based orders give you some freedom not to participate. I don't have to go to church, listen to Rush Limbaugh or watch the Superbowl if I don't want to.

BTW, Peter Joseph's exploitation of Fresco reminds me of how the National Rifle Association used Charlton Heston to promote its agenda when the man clearly suffered from cognitive decline.

Edward writes:

As I've said before, show single moms how they can better care for their families, provide free childcare to them, and start community doctors and hospitals, then you'll see success.

Conservatives don't want that to happen because it undermines male authority. Apart from the authority issue, I think society would benefit from restoring the shaming ethic which made single women reluctant to get impregnated by cads and then use the political process to make the rest of us pay for their bastard children.

A charity can be defined as:

Charity
n.

1. An organization, the objective of which is to carry out a charitable purpose.
2. In general, an attitude of kindness and understanding towards others, now especially suggesting generosity.

The Zeitgeist Movement's purpose is to form a global civilization, call it a Matriarchy if you want a term for it. Not in terms of women 'ruling' society, but in terms of the symbolism that idea implies - fertility, production (think: female ability to reproduce as reinforcement of that symbolism), abundance, etc,.

That, of course, is a charitable purpose.

And, further, we are charitable as far as is presently possible "especially concerning generosity." No one has to pay for any of our information, nor shall they ever have to.

And, it should be highlighted, the current phase this charity is in could be termed an information campaign.

@advancedatheist:
>> Democracies don't enforce changes on unwilling minorities? Since when? <<
I'm talking about the highest concept of democracy, not democracy as it is generally now.

@Muertos:
>> I can state that not a single one of them involves trying to get people to believe 9/11 was an inside job or that Jewish bankers rule the world. <<
Nor does the ZM.

@Edward:
>> That's pretty insulting to real charities helping real people. If what you say qualifies a group as a charity, even the Communist Party USA fits that description. <<
Yep, it's a charitable idea.

>> ...show single moms how they can better care for their families, provide free childcare to them, and start community doctors and hospitals, then you'll see successshow single moms how they can better care for their families, provide free childcare to them, and start community doctors and hospitals, then you'll see success <<
When we collectively have the means, many of us will.

@Matt:
>> Yeah, I bet. Name the dollar amount you donated to charity in 2009. <<
Never donated a cent to any charity, and the idea that money is required to move a charity forward is really quite insulting. Charities wouldn't function at all if they didn't get volunteers offering hundreds of hours of work every year.
Money is an important tool, but it's not necessary for it to come from ever contributor for a charity to work out.

>> No one suppressed Fresco. He just never did anything but paint pictures and play with toys to amuse people like yourself with more good intentions than brains.

Yeah, I react with hostility towards anyone pushing a utopian agenda because what you're really pushing is fascism with pretty wrapping paper around it. <<
I never said anyone suppressed Fresco. I'm referring to technologies that have been suppressed through political, and other means. Example in point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car%3F

I sound like I'm being all negative. Yes, we are living in the most advanced society in human history with the highest living standards ever. But, everybody should be able to enjoy that.

That's all I'm saying. And anyone who thinks that's too idealistic, knows what they can do with themselves. And if not, I'll be more than happy to tell them.

@Omni:

"Ok, completely ignore my first post."

I had planned to even before you asked.

@Brenton:

"Never donated a cent to any charity, and the idea that money is required to move a charity forward is really quite insulting. Charities wouldn't function at all if they didn't get volunteers offering hundreds of hours of work every year.
Money is an important tool, but it's not necessary for it to come from ever contributor for a charity to work out."

Fair enough. What did you do to donate your time to charity?

Posting on forums, forwarding emails, etc does not count. Nothing involving Zeitgeist counts, as it is not a charity any more than Scientology is. Only real volunteer work with a legitimate, charitable organization counts. If you sat at home in front of your computer, it doesn't count.

Your initial reply about my scepticism concerning your real contributions to society made it sound like you were Mr. Peace Corps. I'd like to know what exactly it is you have done for charity. You claim to be all about saving the world. I just want to know what steps you've taken to really do something about it.

">> I can state that not a single one of them involves trying to get people to believe 9/11 was an inside job or that Jewish bankers rule the world. <<
Nor does the ZM."

All over the internet, you can find people who talk about passing out DVD's of Zeitgeist to people on the street and so on. Even if it was only the second movie, they would still be promoting this stuff, because the second Zeitgeist recaps all of the stuff from the first.

wow, wow, blantant insult....

No wonder Peter Joseph dismissed you guys laughing.

@SomedoucheIambothignoringandinsulting:

If Peter Joseph isn't a floppy, saggy pussy he can always come here and debate.

But yeah, otherwise I am afraid he is a floppy, saggy pussy.

With centipedes.

;_; <---- See I made sad face for you.

You don't have to reply to me. Reply to Sky or advancedatheist. Quit playing the victim.

I don't really care if you or Peter Joseph feel like laughing or dismissing me, it's not really an insult or a 'one up' to me for people to not post on my forums or read my site. I honestly don't really get broken up about it if people decide to leave, especially if they spend their time playing victim because someone didn't see their original question.

I have this incredible ability to admit when I'm wrong and correct myself, the idea the Peter Joseph never can do the same makes me want to laugh him off rather than caring he laughs me off. I wish he'd laugh me off all night long.

@Sky:

I'm pretty chill. I take this as seriously as ragging on someone's favorite pop star.

Last time I checked Peter Joseph doesn't debate, second he doesn't address people who challenge him. Ed (a different person) who's also a member of The Zeitgeist Movement forums has already tried to talk to PJ multiple times, and PJ just takes off from the threads. He simply says he doesn't have the time to do all of that.