Skeptic Project

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy7o2iQbEPw

You can wear whatever the fuck you want, Muertos.

"@Ed: No. The point of that diatribe of his was to highlight the fact that building solar panels is pretty irrelevant at this point, regardless of what little 'goodness' it might demonstrate.

We are headed for a multi-angled environmental crisis and our economic system is unsustainable (neither of these contentions are unique to the ZM), and building solar panels will not even begin to fix that. "

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What you still fail to grasp is that Fresco has almost no credibility outside his stories, nice models and drawings.

If he at least used something like renewable energies in his own home this would at least have given him this much.

When will the ZG movement do anything? I asked before, you know what I'm saying Please read it.

"Though, honestly, I think in time The Venus Project will get Government support."

Not after I fill out this PDF and mail it to the IRS.

http://anticultist.wordpress.com/2010/01/18/the-venus-project-is-not-just-non-profit/</p>

The IRS might find TVP's financial practices to be of interest, especially considering they claim to be a non profit.

Let's see how your movement deals with an audit.

I take it personally when people steal from the society I live in. Those are my tax dollars. You live in Australia. Courting people who accuse this country of murdering its own people is bad enough. But when you start stealing tax dollars from society, you are robbing legitimate groups of needed funds. That can't be allowed.

http://anticultist.wordpress.com/about/</p>

Everything you need to know about this potential cult, including its refusal for financial transparency with evidence of dialogues between a member and Roxanne Meadows. The identity of Peter Joseph, The legal dispute and failing of trademarking of RBE by the venus project with documents, and other important facets they dont like discussing on their official forums.

Ex members spill the beans on the inner workings and information not many know.

And I'm reposting this as I think you missed my point about "doing something":

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"When will they actually start doing things you think? They want to build a "research city", right?

You think they will get to that point in the near future? They cant even scrape together enough to make that film and when it inevitably flops as hard as Loose Change: An American Coup what will they do? Just what ARE they hoping to accomplish with the film? Get funding for the research city? From where? From rich people that aren't concerned with science apparently. I'll tell you what will happen, they will forever be spreading the news. Forever. Fresco will die and Roxanne and Peter will carry on. Spreading the news. That is what the Zeitgeist Movement will be. "

We havent even touched on the finite resources of the earth yet, and how this RBE society claims to make everyones equity value the same on earth, talk about decentralised logistical nightmares.

Their whole theory is dependant upon entire nations, corporate owners and nationalistic heritages all bending to their will of handing every resource on their land over freely to the rest of the worlds nations.

Does anyone else see any stumbling blocks here?

Maybe in a fantasy land everyone will just be 'educated' to hand stuff over to other people freely, even when those resources are depleting rapidly and are rare, but in reality I predict a couple of major problems there.

And of course we get to the whole preservation of resources and monitoring them from a centralised system, this in itself is a logistical nightmare, imagine all the millions of resources this system will need to monitor in real time [raw materials as well as products] but fact is if resources are running out everyone wont be at the same equity value because there wont be enough to go around.

Unless we start taking away from everyone and sharing equity so everyone has less, so the ones with none can have some ?

Doesnt much sound like the fantasy land they sold it on in reality.

and it has a for profit matt:

http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_hxlxws</p>

“Venus Project Inc is a private company located in Venus, FL. Current estimates show this company has annual revenue of $120,000 and employs a staff of approximately 2.”
The Venus Project, Inc. also currently operates under the name “Global Cybervisions” and was actually established in February, 1995.
Reference:

http://www.corporationwiki.com/Florida/Venus/the-venus-project-inc-6481878.aspx</p>

Donations to the Venus Project via their website go to their non-profit sector, Future by Design, which had revenues of approximately $28,000 in 2008.

Other revenues go to the for-profit sector (Venus Project, Inc./Global Cybervisions), which is not listed anywhere on their website.

Jacque & Roxanne have been involved in 7 + private businesses as directors with different people since 1970

Exactly.

I'll take Picard over Peter Joseph any day.

An interesting thing with the Star Trek-ish sci fi: despite the abundance of free resources people still found ways to screw each other over for the sake of the plotline. If even Star Trek can be honest about the human condition, one would think TVP/TZM could too.

Look at Picard's fascination with archeology. He could replicate all of those artifacts he gets a boner over. But he doesn't do that, because he wants the real thing. Geordie La Forge could easily replicate a chick to finally sleep with him in the holodeck, but he doesn't do that because he wants the real thing. I could go on, but I already feel like a huge nerd as it is.

I have already seen this documentary.

How about this information :
WINSTON SALEM, NC
MOCKSVILLE, NC

He lives or lived there too so whats your point ?

Whoever made it is obviously a learning film-maker (watch the editing very closely and you can pick it up), so I imagine combining two different angles fairly neatly would have taken time (and I should know to a certain degree because I'm moving into film). Even so, if your blog post was what made the author upload this then great - it's a pretty good run-over of what's happened in terms of the ZM thus far.

So if your blog post did make the creator upload it (which it seems you and I both clearly doubt) then thank-you! Thank-you soo much!

>> Lets be truthful, if this guy thinks he is an expert after reading a few books, and thinks thats all that academics and credentialed experts do, then he clearly has no clue about what it means to be called a consultant or an expert in a field. <<
That's not what he said. He even qualified that statement with something along the lines of (not watching it again to get the direct quote) 'I wouldn't even want to go to a doctor that doesn't have credentials, if I can help it'.
His point with the credential-ism statement is that you don't have to have credentials in an area to comment on it when it comes to something subjective like economics or history (because as any historian will tell you, much of it is about forming your own understanding / point of view, based on the often limited information available).
And then to go on to suggest he thinks he's an expert! The whole credential-ism statement brushes that notion that he ever would think that away. Catch-22 to the max.

>> That goes for the old fart Jacque as well. And before you try to defend grandad, he just plays with his kids toys, films them, and then uses other researchers materials to validate his thunerbird model world. <<
I don't think I need to defend him. The film 'Future by Design' which mostly showcases his architectural designs and work has been shown in architectural schools pretty much since it's release. So don't give me bunk about the man having no respect in the academic arena.
Even if he didn't get attention from academia at all, it doesn't matter because all of the stuff that's absolutely necessary (in terms of utility) for a resource-based economy to exist is already possible and doesn't even have to be 'proven' by Jacque because other scientists and technicians have long done so.
So what's absolutely necessary (just to qualify this)?
Energy, Food, Water, Education for all.

By the way I should also 'play' this card. Hope you're not coming to a forum where you think everyone will be disagreeing with the basic premises of a resource-based economy. The owner of this website is a technocrat himself, and in favor of The Venus Project, but just wants to see the conspiracy elements of the first film completely disclaimed from the Movement's work.

>> And dont give a shitty example like you can become an expert in literature from reading books because thats not the claims this guys making, hes on about changing the entire material world, thats not something you can just read a few books on then suddenly become an expert on. <<
And when did I ever suggest that?

I'm going to write a final essay response to this thread later today, then I really need to ignore this discussion until after ZDay because all the discussion here is slowing my work down.

Thanks for your post Pdr (I'm assuming that's the anonymous face I'm talking to).

"His point with the credential-ism statement is that you don't have to have credentials in an area to comment on it when it comes to something subjective like economics or history (because as any historian will tell you, much of it is about forming your own understanding / point of view, based on the often limited information available)."

So since Peter/Jacque have no credentials in the matters they are discussing we can safely say no cedentials in sociology, no credentials in psychology, no credentials in architecture, no credentials in science, no credentials in city design, no credentials in philosophy, no credentials in anything. So what does this all mean Brenton ?
Are we actually agreeing that Peter shouldnt be talking about this stuff as if he knows anything about it, and should simply add a disclaimer that anything he says is merely an opinion of his own. Same goes for Jacque since hes just an old guy who has shacked up in his cave for the last 40 + years with no credentials either, just a few jobs he claims to have done.

What has history got to do with claims of a futurist city and a futurist society please Brenton ? .

You do realise Jacque only did nice drawings and models, these will of been shown to architects as examples of nice aesthetic design, not as technical adaptations of buildings. Roxanne is only a model maker and cad drawer forarchitects too.
Jacque discusses building molds and pre fabricated designs, for machines to build. Yes future by design, I have watched that baloney as well.

So other scientists do all the work on RBE, jacque does the pretty pictures and read a few books, but you give jacque the credit and follow him about like a lapdog? why not follow the real scientists about like a lapdog Brenton ?

And about an RBE working I think we really should be seeing if its possible in reality before we all start hailing it as the new life saver and the only possible answer, since logistically speaking there are a tonne of flaws and problems.
AND where do him and Jacque get off with the social engineering/societal manipulation ?
Now Brenton before you start your incessant arguing, alllow me to say one last thing:

These two are just a bunch of neo hippy pseudo intellectuals clambering for a bit of attention and getting the likes of you to promote it and defend it.

Yes this is Pdr under this name, I am using it on here if thats ok by you ? its ok by the blog owners

We all know that people like Brenton are going to continue arguing this till they're blue in the face, no matter what contrary opinion or evidence you have, and until the entire idea fails and goes away like the last made up fad people like him are gonna be blabbering on about it.

Then he will be onto his next beautiful ideology and start all over again, working his way into a position of pretend authority within the group, and start spamming all the message boards with how great it is, and how we should all love it.

And so the cycle repeats with the follower types looking for answers.

If these guys were really doing things by the scientific method, they probably shouldn't listen to Fresco on a lot of things. By the time this future society came about, people would be able to create better inventions then Fresco's designs. Plus a lot of his ideas are impractical already. There are reasons why city planners don't build round cities like that, the trafic would be all messed up, and the way he explains it, people would have to travel all across town to use city services. In the future are people just going to do things just because Jacques Fresco said to design it that way, even if it isn't the best way to do things?