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Muertos | Posted: Jun 20, 2010 - 10:46 |
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Paid Disinformation Blogger Level: 14 CS Original | This guy has yet to make a coherent argument in his various posts on the Facebook wall and discussion board. He's angry about something but never says exactly what he thinks we've done wrong. Seems like a Truther but is carefully avoiding saying anything that would directly reveal it. Thoughts? | |||||
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Agent Matt | Posted: Jun 20, 2010 - 11:10 |
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Genuine American Monster Level: 70 CS Original | I'd just ban him. Its obviously a fake profile. I don't think his name is really John Smith. Also, everyone on the friends list looks to be about 16 years old. | |||||
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sorry | Posted: Jun 20, 2010 - 11:11 |
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Level: 12 CS Original | I'm guessing that he's an overly sensitive truther who gets irritated when Edward throws his opinion or wit into the articles. | |||||
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Muertos | Posted: Jun 20, 2010 - 12:07 |
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Paid Disinformation Blogger Level: 14 CS Original | Nah, not going to ban him, though I don't think his name is John Smith either. I'm curious what conspiracies he believes in and why he's pissed off at the site. I wish he would give us specifics on what he thinks we got wrong so we could have a real debate, but his posts like "this site sucks" and "you should be unbiased" are impossible to reply to because they're so general. When the icon for the FB page was (temporarily) changed to John Smith's, with photoshopped tinfoil hat and bong (which I think was going a little too far), one of his friends posted, "It's actually pretty accurate, you do get stoned and talk about conspiracies!" I LOL'd. | |||||
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Ninja R | Posted: Jun 20, 2010 - 13:14 |
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Level: 0 CS Original | I noticed this guy last night when I joined the FB group. I couldn't quite figure him out, either. Seems to me the most recent post he made sounds like a sub-argument of Muertos' third canned TZM response. It's my understanding that you guys focus on Zeitgeist and its debunking. To me, it almost sounds as if he's trying to say, "Well, if you're going to debunk Zeitgeist, you have to debunk every other crazy ass site out there." Joe Lowes sounds way more nuts when I can read what he's trying to say. | |||||
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Sil the Shill | Posted: Jun 20, 2010 - 13:45 |
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Level: 9 CS Original | The "focus" on this site alternates between Zeitgeist and AJ usually. I think what John Smith is trying to say is more along the lines of "This site is biased because it says conspiracies are wrong just because they are conspiracy theories!", which of course isn't true... I don't think any of the regulars here would deny that conspiracies exist, but there's a big difference between real conspiracies and conspiracy theories. | |||||
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Kaiser Falkner | Posted: Jun 20, 2010 - 16:01 |
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HAIL HYDRA Level: 6 CS Original | You can see his notes on his facebook profile and he makes this very problematic claim, which I have always been bothered by: he believes 9/11 was an inside job, and those who don't think so clearly believe that their government is above corruption. See, just because I don't think 9/11 was an inside job doesnt mean I think the government is pure and good. Indeed, there are many rational and real criticisms to make- and people have made them! Noam Chomsky has done so in relation to the foreign policy of this country, Jeffery Sachs has done it with the economic policies, and indeed we have seen government officials exposed for corruption (Blago come, Spitzer, etc etc). There is a difference between being critical of a government and making stuff up. The opposite of being a 9/11 truther is NOT believing in a pure and good government. Instead it is being rational and constructive about criticism I have also repeatedly engaged his "philosophical points" which he claims he doesnt have. He supports a bastardized version of Socratic-skepticism where all theories are demanding of equal treatment. What he has not seemed to recognize is that 1) that the "we know nothing" tenant falls into the problem of the hermeneutic cycle and thus is not functional. If we know nothing (or are uncertain of something) then we cannot be aware of that. This problem was recognized by thinkers after Montaigne and has been shown to pose a very serious limitation to this train of thought 2) There is a great danger is wasting time chasing false roots to real problems- which Conspiracy theories are. Instead of dealing with REAL government corruption and problems, Conspiracy Theories force the supporters to sit by and speculate on something that is not only illogical, but improbable. His position is that we can never know if a CT is right or not, so we should treat them with seriousness. However, that involves ignoring and diluting out the complexities of the situation. and 3) That our bias invalidates our information. He claims that all we do is debunk and not analyze. However, that clearly demonstrates a poor understanding of how science works. The work is to deliberately try to prove the theory wrong- and if it stands then it is a good theory. his problem is that we paint all Cters are crazy people- but he overlooks that what this site does is show how the CTs we deal with are illogical, and how people continue to repeat it. Look at the debates we've had and youll see that we have gotten into this over and over, and yet there is no recognition that these are problems on his part. | |||||
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Muertos | Posted: Jun 20, 2010 - 16:19 |
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Paid Disinformation Blogger Level: 14 CS Original | I'll look for those notes Falkner, they do actually state that he's a Truther? The old "if you don't believe 9/11 was an inside job, you must support the gubbermint" line. *rolls eyes* "We know nothing." *rolls eyes* I figured as much. The epistemological arguments for conspiracy theories are among the most maddening, IMO. The theorists who want to support their CT's with garbage like "how do we know a fact is true?" remind me of that old movie Dark Star where Bomb No. 20 learns to think for itself and calls the outside world "false data." I also figured he was building up to some type of argument seeking to level the playing field, such as "don't dismiss conspiracy theories because you never know they might be true," but he never actually got so far as to MAKING that argument. That's the problem with this guy, he always sounds like he's revving up to make one point or another, but never actually follows through and makes them. That annoys me. If somebody thinks we're wrong let's hear what they think we're wrong about, not just that we're "biased." | |||||
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Agent Matt | Posted: Jun 20, 2010 - 17:26 |
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Genuine American Monster Level: 70 CS Original | I've got no tolerance for sock puppets on Facebook. If you're gonna use it, use your real name. Just my opinion. | |||||
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Sky | Posted: Jun 20, 2010 - 18:03 |
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Level: 3 CS Original | That John Smith guy invited all of his friends to join the facebook group to teach us a lesson and then bragged about it on the wall. Only one of friends showed up, and then another one of his friends messaged me to say what a nut he is in real life. It was pretty funny. And no, his name is not really John Smith. | |||||
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Kaiser Falkner | Posted: Jun 20, 2010 - 18:25 |
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HAIL HYDRA Level: 6 CS Original | I wrote a blog on the argument John Smith makes implicitly in one of his posts http://falknerslegend.tumblr.com/post/719856021/the-fallacy-of-extremes</p> Read if you are interested. | |||||
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Muertos | Posted: Jun 20, 2010 - 18:28 |
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Paid Disinformation Blogger Level: 14 CS Original | I don't get it when CT's invite their friends to troll debunker sites. This same thing happened to "9/11 Conspiracy Theories are BS" too. Do they really think they're going to "convince" us of the twoof by sheer force of numbers? | |||||
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sorry | Posted: Jun 20, 2010 - 18:31 |
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Level: 12 CS Original | Nice read, Falkner. Muertos, while they would like to convince us, it is not their main priority. That, of course, is a desire to claim responsibility for attention. They want to take part in grinding gears and poking sticks in their enemy's spokes. | |||||
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Muertos | Posted: Jun 20, 2010 - 18:36 |
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Paid Disinformation Blogger Level: 14 CS Original | Yes, good job Falkner, I re-blogged it on my Tumblr. | |||||
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Kaiser Falkner | Posted: Jun 21, 2010 - 20:37 |
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HAIL HYDRA Level: 6 CS Original | Here, John Smith posted this on Facebook http://911blogger.com/node/10025</p> This is the "studying" that "John Smith" does | |||||
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Agent Matt | Posted: Jun 21, 2010 - 20:44 |
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Genuine American Monster Level: 70 CS Original | I HAVE STUDIED MANY YOUTUBE VIDEOS AND RESEARCHED MANY BLOGS! I HAVE ALSO POSTED MANY ESSAYS OUTLINING MY FINDS ON THE INTERNET INCLUDING THIS ONE! SINCERELY, MATT, DOCTOR OF INTERNETOLOGY | |||||
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Kaiser Falkner | Posted: Jun 21, 2010 - 20:50 |
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HAIL HYDRA Level: 6 CS Original | Matt, why did your Facebook self die? | |||||
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Agent Matt | Posted: Jun 21, 2010 - 20:56 |
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Genuine American Monster Level: 70 CS Original | I got banned for trolling. | |||||
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sorry | Posted: Jun 21, 2010 - 20:57 |
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Level: 12 CS Original | What were you trolling? | |||||
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Agent Matt | Posted: Jun 21, 2010 - 20:58 |
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Genuine American Monster Level: 70 CS Original | Ron Paul. | |||||
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Kaiser Falkner | Posted: Jun 21, 2010 - 21:00 |
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HAIL HYDRA Level: 6 CS Original | Haha So I saw the "Ron Paul" response first and thought that was an answer to me. Then I saw the real reason. Sorry you got ban hammered. Also are YOU John Smith?! | |||||
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sorry | Posted: Jun 21, 2010 - 21:01 |
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Level: 12 CS Original | Ron Paul has some good ideas. | |||||
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Agent Matt | Posted: Jun 21, 2010 - 21:01 |
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Genuine American Monster Level: 70 CS Original | Nah, I lost interest in Facebook. "Ron Paul has some good ideas." TROLL | |||||
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Edward L Winston | Posted: Jun 21, 2010 - 21:05 |
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President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho: porn star and five-time ultimate smackdown wrestling champion! Level: 150 CS Original | He can have 100 good ideas, that doesn't make up for 10 stupid ones he pushes harder than any good ones. | |||||
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sorry | Posted: Jun 21, 2010 - 21:08 |
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Level: 12 CS Original | Yea I was just teasing Matt. | |||||
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Agent Matt | Posted: Jun 21, 2010 - 21:08 |
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Genuine American Monster Level: 70 CS Original | http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=296 Hurr durr Ron Paul has good ideas. Seriously, what a worthless elected official. | |||||
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sorry | Posted: Jun 21, 2010 - 21:14 |
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Level: 12 CS Original | That site isn't loading. | |||||
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Kaiser Falkner | Posted: Jun 21, 2010 - 21:15 |
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HAIL HYDRA Level: 6 CS Original | The only thing he is right about is his historical understanding of foreign policy and why America is hated abroad. Outside of that, the guy is bonkers. Libertarianism- the only political philosophy that forgot the Great Depression happened. | |||||
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Agent Matt | Posted: Jun 21, 2010 - 21:15 |
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Genuine American Monster Level: 70 CS Original | Its slow tonight, give it a minute. | |||||
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Edward L Winston | Posted: Jun 21, 2010 - 21:21 |
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President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho: porn star and five-time ultimate smackdown wrestling champion! Level: 150 CS Original | Put some KY on the router and speed it up a bit. | |||||
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