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Forum - John Smith (on the FB group).

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MuertosPosted: Jun 20, 2010 - 10:46
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This guy has yet to make a coherent argument in his various posts on the Facebook wall and discussion board. He's angry about something but never says exactly what he thinks we've done wrong.

Seems like a Truther but is carefully avoiding saying anything that would directly reveal it.

Thoughts?

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Agent MattPosted: Jun 20, 2010 - 11:10
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Genuine American Monster

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I'd just ban him. Its obviously a fake profile. I don't think his name is really John Smith.

Also, everyone on the friends list looks to be about 16 years old.

#2 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
sorryPosted: Jun 20, 2010 - 11:11
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Level: 12
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I'm guessing that he's an overly sensitive truther who gets irritated when Edward throws his opinion or wit into the articles.

#3 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
MuertosPosted: Jun 20, 2010 - 12:07
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Nah, not going to ban him, though I don't think his name is John Smith either. I'm curious what conspiracies he believes in and why he's pissed off at the site. I wish he would give us specifics on what he thinks we got wrong so we could have a real debate, but his posts like "this site sucks" and "you should be unbiased" are impossible to reply to because they're so general.

When the icon for the FB page was (temporarily) changed to John Smith's, with photoshopped tinfoil hat and bong (which I think was going a little too far), one of his friends posted, "It's actually pretty accurate, you do get stoned and talk about conspiracies!" I LOL'd.

#4 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Ninja RPosted: Jun 20, 2010 - 13:14
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I noticed this guy last night when I joined the FB group. I couldn't quite figure him out, either. Seems to me the most recent post he made sounds like a sub-argument of Muertos' third canned TZM response. It's my understanding that you guys focus on Zeitgeist and its debunking. To me, it almost sounds as if he's trying to say, "Well, if you're going to debunk Zeitgeist, you have to debunk every other crazy ass site out there."

Joe Lowes sounds way more nuts when I can read what he's trying to say.

#5 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Sil the ShillPosted: Jun 20, 2010 - 13:45
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Level: 9
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The "focus" on this site alternates between Zeitgeist and AJ usually. I think what John Smith is trying to say is more along the lines of "This site is biased because it says conspiracies are wrong just because they are conspiracy theories!", which of course isn't true... I don't think any of the regulars here would deny that conspiracies exist, but there's a big difference between real conspiracies and conspiracy theories.

#6 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Kaiser FalknerPosted: Jun 20, 2010 - 16:01
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HAIL HYDRA

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You can see his notes on his facebook profile and he makes this very problematic claim, which I have always been bothered by:

he believes 9/11 was an inside job, and those who don't think so clearly believe that their government is above corruption. See, just because I don't think 9/11 was an inside job doesnt mean I think the government is pure and good. Indeed, there are many rational and real criticisms to make- and people have made them! Noam Chomsky has done so in relation to the foreign policy of this country, Jeffery Sachs has done it with the economic policies, and indeed we have seen government officials exposed for corruption (Blago come, Spitzer, etc etc). There is a difference between being critical of a government and making stuff up. The opposite of being a 9/11 truther is NOT believing in a pure and good government. Instead it is being rational and constructive about criticism

I have also repeatedly engaged his "philosophical points" which he claims he doesnt have. He supports a bastardized version of Socratic-skepticism where all theories are demanding of equal treatment. What he has not seemed to recognize is that

1) that the "we know nothing" tenant falls into the problem of the hermeneutic cycle and thus is not functional. If we know nothing (or are uncertain of something) then we cannot be aware of that. This problem was recognized by thinkers after Montaigne and has been shown to pose a very serious limitation to this train of thought

2) There is a great danger is wasting time chasing false roots to real problems- which Conspiracy theories are. Instead of dealing with REAL government corruption and problems, Conspiracy Theories force the supporters to sit by and speculate on something that is not only illogical, but improbable. His position is that we can never know if a CT is right or not, so we should treat them with seriousness. However, that involves ignoring and diluting out the complexities of the situation.

and

3) That our bias invalidates our information. He claims that all we do is debunk and not analyze. However, that clearly demonstrates a poor understanding of how science works. The work is to deliberately try to prove the theory wrong- and if it stands then it is a good theory. his problem is that we paint all Cters are crazy people- but he overlooks that what this site does is show how the CTs we deal with are illogical, and how people continue to repeat it.

Look at the debates we've had and youll see that we have gotten into this over and over, and yet there is no recognition that these are problems on his part.

#7 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
MuertosPosted: Jun 20, 2010 - 16:19
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I'll look for those notes Falkner, they do actually state that he's a Truther?

The old "if you don't believe 9/11 was an inside job, you must support the gubbermint" line. *rolls eyes*

"We know nothing." *rolls eyes* I figured as much. The epistemological arguments for conspiracy theories are among the most maddening, IMO. The theorists who want to support their CT's with garbage like "how do we know a fact is true?" remind me of that old movie Dark Star where Bomb No. 20 learns to think for itself and calls the outside world "false data."

I also figured he was building up to some type of argument seeking to level the playing field, such as "don't dismiss conspiracy theories because you never know they might be true," but he never actually got so far as to MAKING that argument. That's the problem with this guy, he always sounds like he's revving up to make one point or another, but never actually follows through and makes them. That annoys me. If somebody thinks we're wrong let's hear what they think we're wrong about, not just that we're "biased."

#8 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Jun 20, 2010 - 17:26
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
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I've got no tolerance for sock puppets on Facebook. If you're gonna use it, use your real name.

Just my opinion.

#9 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
SkyPosted: Jun 20, 2010 - 18:03
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Level: 3
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That John Smith guy invited all of his friends to join the facebook group to teach us a lesson and then bragged about it on the wall. Only one of friends showed up, and then another one of his friends messaged me to say what a nut he is in real life. It was pretty funny. And no, his name is not really John Smith.

#10 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Kaiser FalknerPosted: Jun 20, 2010 - 18:25
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HAIL HYDRA

Level: 6
CS Original

I wrote a blog on the argument John Smith makes implicitly in one of his posts

http://falknerslegend.tumblr.com/post/719856021/the-fallacy-of-extremes</p>

Read if you are interested.

#11 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
MuertosPosted: Jun 20, 2010 - 18:28
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Paid Disinformation Blogger

Level: 14
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I don't get it when CT's invite their friends to troll debunker sites. This same thing happened to "9/11 Conspiracy Theories are BS" too. Do they really think they're going to "convince" us of the twoof by sheer force of numbers?

#12 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
sorryPosted: Jun 20, 2010 - 18:31
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Level: 12
CS Original

Nice read, Falkner.

Muertos, while they would like to convince us, it is not their main priority. That, of course, is a desire to claim responsibility for attention. They want to take part in grinding gears and poking sticks in their enemy's spokes.

#13 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
MuertosPosted: Jun 20, 2010 - 18:36
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Paid Disinformation Blogger

Level: 14
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Yes, good job Falkner, I re-blogged it on my Tumblr.

#14 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Kaiser FalknerPosted: Jun 21, 2010 - 20:37
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HAIL HYDRA

Level: 6
CS Original

Here, John Smith posted this on Facebook

http://911blogger.com/node/10025</p>

This is the "studying" that "John Smith" does

#15 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Jun 21, 2010 - 20:44
(1)
 

Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

I HAVE STUDIED MANY YOUTUBE VIDEOS AND RESEARCHED MANY BLOGS!

I HAVE ALSO POSTED MANY ESSAYS OUTLINING MY FINDS ON THE INTERNET INCLUDING THIS ONE!

SINCERELY,

MATT, DOCTOR OF INTERNETOLOGY

#16 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Kaiser FalknerPosted: Jun 21, 2010 - 20:50
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HAIL HYDRA

Level: 6
CS Original

Matt, why did your Facebook self die?

#17 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Jun 21, 2010 - 20:56
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

I got banned for trolling.

#18 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
sorryPosted: Jun 21, 2010 - 20:57
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Level: 12
CS Original

What were you trolling?

#19 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Jun 21, 2010 - 20:58
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

Ron Paul.

#20 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Kaiser FalknerPosted: Jun 21, 2010 - 21:00
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HAIL HYDRA

Level: 6
CS Original

Haha

So I saw the "Ron Paul" response first and thought that was an answer to me. Then I saw the real reason. Sorry you got ban hammered.

Also

are YOU John Smith?!

#21 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
sorryPosted: Jun 21, 2010 - 21:01
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Level: 12
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Ron Paul has some good ideas.

#22 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Jun 21, 2010 - 21:01
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

Nah, I lost interest in Facebook.

"Ron Paul has some good ideas."

TROLL

#23 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Edward L WinstonPosted: Jun 21, 2010 - 21:05
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President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho: porn star and five-time ultimate smackdown wrestling champion!

Level: 150
CS Original

He can have 100 good ideas, that doesn't make up for 10 stupid ones he pushes harder than any good ones.

#24 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
sorryPosted: Jun 21, 2010 - 21:08
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Level: 12
CS Original

Yea I was just teasing Matt.

#25 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Jun 21, 2010 - 21:08
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=296

Hurr durr Ron Paul has good ideas.

Seriously, what a worthless elected official.

#26 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
sorryPosted: Jun 21, 2010 - 21:14
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Level: 12
CS Original

That site isn't loading.

#27 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Kaiser FalknerPosted: Jun 21, 2010 - 21:15
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HAIL HYDRA

Level: 6
CS Original

The only thing he is right about is his historical understanding of foreign policy and why America is hated abroad. Outside of that, the guy is bonkers.

Libertarianism- the only political philosophy that forgot the Great Depression happened.

#28 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Jun 21, 2010 - 21:15
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

Its slow tonight, give it a minute.

#29 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Edward L WinstonPosted: Jun 21, 2010 - 21:21
(0)
 

President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho: porn star and five-time ultimate smackdown wrestling champion!

Level: 150
CS Original

Put some KY on the router and speed it up a bit.

#30 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]