Skeptic Project

No but I think I will be.

(2) Do not post personal attacks.... Also, this goes for my films - such criticisms will not be addressed here as they are external to TZM itself.

This is how he's going to avoid addressing most of the criticisms raised on this site, by classifying them as "personal attacks" or attacks against the films.

*sigh* I'd egg their fort if they had one.

I remember his "undebunking" broadcast had almost no listeners at all. I don't think there are as many active people as being let on, my guess is probably several hundred and that's it.

Despite all the views on the Internet and all the bullshit and all the talk, if you walked up to someone on the street and said "have you heard of The Zeitgeist Movement or The Venus Project?" they would respond with: "huh?"

Looks like Gavin is being singled out there Bill, it is because he debated the other persons posts in the thread.:
http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=99999&func=view&catid=232&id=268619&limit=10&limitstart=10#268728

But if you look on the first page another user was questioning and answering other peoples posts.:
http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=99999&func=view&catid=232&id=268619#268639

I would say Gavins questions have made them react negatively towards him in particular.

http://ic2.pbase.com/o6/51/153751/1/83742569.2OStg1XX.guillotine.gif</p>

poor Gavin

So if TVP suddenly became a reality, would we get "banned" from society for disagreeing?

Unless you wanted to abandon them and go and live in the wilderness and start your own sex tribe with some hot women.

Sign me up to that movement! I'll believe whatever you like!

Makes me cringe when they talk all militant when they are the most inactive activist movement on the planet.

They are very active! SHUT UP!

They totally post on forums telling people to watch the Zeitgeist and.. like ...many totally hand out real DVD's of the Zeitgeist films and... fliers and stuff... and like some quote Fresco sayings in their facebook status's... many meet up and plan how they will get the films and fliers out to as many people as possible!! ...kay?..................

Insane Clown Posse is more successful at changing the world's youth than The Zeitgeist Movement.

This is a bit long sorry CS but I'm attempting to answer Galaxycolonizer question.

---------------------------------------------------------
Here is a nice question post for Peter Merola kudos to Galaxycolonizer for writing it.

>>Galaxycolonizer post:

Well, the most people I've confrunted with TZM and TVP brought up the following objections:

1) fullautomation of all areas of economy isn't possible or affordable
2) moneyless economy isn't possible: no distribution control possible,
it generates stockpilling, black markets, etc.
3) you can't change people that intensive how would be needed to
implement a RBE
4) computer governement isn't possible and whishable because machines
could be manipulated by some high-tech elites (instead of money elites
like now).
5) abundance isn't possible in all areas (i.e. mineral resource are scarce
whatever one does) if one focus only on the resources of planet Earth alone.
6) unifying people of different cultures, countries, religions is daydreaming
7) RBE is ridiculous difficult to implement and if ever successfull it will be
wiped out by the elites, who have all the power in their hands.
8) there is no tangible transition plan (me and others tryied to sketch some:)
www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/wiki/index....S_strategy_in_detail
9) the illuminati and the conspiracy themes (9/11 internal job) makes the movement
look unproffesional
10) without forced labor like now ther isn't enough motivation there so that a economy can work<<

------

Nice questions indeed, since I'm pretty sure Peter Merola isn't a qualified engineer and not only do I have a BA in Mechanical engineering but I have years of experienc being mechanically inclined as well as I am currently working for the government as of now doing autocad/builds for drones I believe I'm qualified to answer most of the question above therefore I will and maybe that individual will be able to get a better response from me (not that I'm anything special) than from Peter. So here I go, I suppose to rip one off Fresco, "if I'm not answering your question please stop me it's not rude" =P fuck fresco, old snakeoils salesman back from the prehistoric times. he know jack shtite about automation. I'd take it he makes some mighty fine models, artwork/drawing, and architect...

I will also include a typically response Peter Merola may give to these question if he were to answer them.

Just for a thing I may be referencing a group I'm in called RBOSE I suppose it's shameless advertising =P

1) full automation of all areas of economy isn't possible or affordable

Billll's response: absolutely true, but I'd say never say never just for the sake of it. It may be possible to be semi automated in most levels of the economy of course you'll need people to fix automation until technology gets to an extent that it no longer needs people to fix it O_o

"Is it affordable?" for the most part not really but id you use things and get deals on things yeah it can be pretty damn cheap. As of now being resourceful in automation is necessary so using materials that's already out there can be to ones advantage.

Anyways thanks to a individual called Warpi I found out about reprap which long story short it's like a print that can basically make anything from a pen to a printer. I'm know expert in this but I had a plan to remake a Pentium 2 process (yes the one with the giant heat sync. why would I build old shitte? because of have schematics to do it, and because I'm curious. One way to build a reprap to save major $ is one can build one out of wood, to my knowledge from a few people it'll save you a lot of money but never got a figure, I myself have never built a reprap before but I am highly interested.

http://rbose.org/wiki/RBOS3D</p>

As RBOSE goals as impossible and weird and maybe even fanatic as it sounds is to open source everything OOoOoOo sorry for giving sort of ambiguous but I cannot read the future, and I always say application is better than talking anyday. next question

Peter Merola response: You don't get it, it is possible watch future by design and you'll see all of Fresco toy models cars, and lego sets and drawins and that's proof it's possible! Also Freco said etc... and that's why it works.

2) moneyless economy isn't possible: no distribution control possible, it generates stockpilling, black markets, etc.

Billll's response: I agree one of my main problems of how we're going to deal with a major issue is the issue of hoarding. Blackmarkets will definilty open up I think education will play a important role here. As in RBOSE we're trying to get people to learn Python not just to learn python to help out with a project called zynenergy but because we're trying to self empower people to stop relying on that plumber to fix your pipes and to fix your own pipes rather than willingly hand the power and money over to a individual who could give a shitte about your pipes in the first place, or if he does a good job, all he wants is the money.

Throughout these teachings we're trying to get students to help students so when someone doesn't know soemthing someone else will help out that individual. I believe education plays a important role, for the fact that TZM/TVP is attracting conspiracy theorist I can't emphasize enough if these people that joined TZM/TVP had a decent education, we're self empowered them self (I am not a motivational speaker) to do it for themselves people would recognize TZM/TVP is which is a conspiracy cult group nothing more nothing less. In short we need to get such people like TZM/TVp members to be self empowered to not need a Peter Merola, a Fresco, or the spokes person of the venus project (laughable) fat tits VTV.

Hopefully through better education (I sound like a politician) people will understand the world around them better because obviously the current educationally system isn't cutting it. I also do not believe in public education but self education as well as the importance of collaborative education as well but that's for a later time for a later day if and when I should want to discuss that. In my spiel hopefully by being correctly educated people will understand a bit more things about this world, about the limits of resources as of right now.

Must throw this out their I believe in the future we will be able to recreate resources out of thin air which would solve the majority of TZM/TVP problems as their are a few physicists within RBOSE channel that are convinced so but again take it for what it's worth. really i can't read the future and action speak louder than words including myself.

Peter Merola response: No your wrong please watch DVD's again and read books. Why don't some people get it?... Money is bad...

3) you can't change people that intensive how would be needed to
implement a RBE

Billll's response: I have no clue, I suppose if we were to do it right now if we could create the resources out of thin air. If we were to do it gradually maybe a barter system would be the RBE or the transition over to RBE. I have no clue though to be honest, actions speak louder than words.

Peter Merola response: Lots of things will need to happen, that's why this isn't going to change in a day and when we're going into the transitional period we'll still need security but the goal will be reverse as we're trying to gradually get ourselves off the old and into the new.

4) computer governement isn't possible and whishable because machines
could be manipulated by some high-tech elites (instead of money elites
like now).

Billll's response: I agree, if TZM/TVP were to be implemented right now their is definitely a possibility of the so called technocratic elites or how about just people with the know how in having easy control/access/technological means to control society since everything is central there is a ease of control (I am conspiracy theorist >_>). My first order would be to hack the robot central database on TVP and require fat tits VTV to lose weight.

Peter Merola: *Reads question with a very smug and sarcastic sounding voice when reading* Then answers it in a smug tone, no that will not happen yadaa yaddaa yaddaa will make sure their are checks and balances. Wish you people would get it <-- Billll responce: so you'll need rules?

5) abundance isn't possible in all areas (i.e. mineral resource are scarce
whatever one does) if one focus only on the resources of planet Earth alone.

Billll's response: I agree, I suppose we'll need to get into recycling. Food for thought recycling any material will create just as much pollution as just throwing it away so I suppose investing in efficent ways for recycling with creating little to no pollution needs to be looked at.

One way has been implemented in the United States, I recommended to anybody to watch the movie "Garbage Wars". It's about man who makes entire houses out of nothing but garbage and they look pretty damn nice. He is getting hassled by politicians etc.. Great movie learn about it if you want too (link below)

http://www.garbagewarrior.com/</p>

response from Peter Merola: That's why I'm not having kids during a resource based economy because I would be wrong for tipping the human carrying capacity of the earth. I can't understand why people would have kids, they are wrong as I've seen maybe trailer park people have to many kids than the earth cans support. We'll need to limit humans to have one kid per household once we figure out the carrying capacity of the earth and the amount of resources we have.

6) unifying people of different cultures, countries, religions is daydreaming

Billll's response: I believe anything is possible but I can't read the future. I'd say in my opinion it is not going to happen anytime soon.

Peter Merola response: No it's possible. Watch DVD's again I think you need some reconditioning or something going to have to happen to you. Fresco trains pigs and racoons to have sex with each other and Fresco joined the KKK so anything is possible it's all enviromental conditioning they just need some reconditioning to see TZM/TVP way.

7) RBE is ridiculous difficult to implement and if ever successful it will be wiped out by the elites, who have all the power in their hands.

Billll's response: I agree, depending on your definition of elites in this particular case if you mean the rich monetary based elites then yes and I think personally (I am not a conspiracy theorist just throwing this out their) if we can promise we're not going to kill them and they will have a place amongst hypothetical society here basically cut a deal with them and explain the situation, why we want to do and implement a RBE I personally think a lot of them would go for it not saying all of them. I don't think any of the new money would go for it though unfortunately except maybe google >_>

Peter Merola: I don't believe in conspiracy theories although my films I and II are riddles with NWO stuff my movies are not the movement you need to watch my DVD's and read books again...

8) there is no tangible transition plan (me and others tryied to sketch some:)
http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/wiki/index.php?title=7._Transition_strategies#7.4_The_HTS_strategy_in_detail

Billll's response: I agree their isn't a tangible plan for TZM'/TVP. FOr RBOSE we want to open source everything actually go to www.rbose.org, read up on everything you'll get what I'm saying.

Nice graph, was a little bit hard to read the actual graph but I was able to read the detailed text descriptions below. I'd have to say I'm glas you talked about resources in your transitional graph " • Materials: materials of all kind (including raw materials), machines, components, equipment, services, etc.." , bottom line you'll need resources and land as you mention and to do this for the most part you'll need some funding not a lot but some to start off for the time being.

I read about this " The possible ways to have access to resources with government participation is through foundation of political parties, awards, registered associations, institutes like UN, help organizations." I doubt that anytime soon again don't rely on anybody but yourself to get the job done giving power to other things just enables the people your giving power to, t easily manipulate you actions speak louder than words but I get what your say and also back the idea just don't back it too much after all your looking to take these peoples jobs away, and they wouldn't be to happy about that watch the movie "Garbage Warriors"

"The ZG movement could be legally protected using the rules of the current system. With government participation there are laws which could protect one against being prosecuted by parties manipulated by some organizations in the interest of the rich elite, secret services, etc. Of course it would be useful to have also some protecting law firms." Wehn reading this I find that if TZM/TVP did this it would look and morph into a interest group than anythnig else it's already a border line cult and if they were to do from the same statement above they would be no different than the other hundreds of religious interest groups. what I'm saying is TZm/TVP as I had states previously on conspiracy science forums would look more like a religious cult interest group that is going towards a bureaucracy than anything else, that's like saying we're against money then take 200 steps back from where you came and being a total hypocrite to what you yes Peter Merola said which is not surprising.

So why would you want to do something that's already been hundreds of times before look at any interest group that had honest attentions now and now that the problem is virtual solved they natural turn into a bureaucracy to keep their jobs, feed their families. EX: MADD, AAA (not complaing about AAA) and a few others can't remember the names to them use google. Investigate these groups and see if their still needed, look into the people, the pay scales whose involved in where at the top levels. I imagine TZM/TVP will lose the path of it's RBE and against money if it turns itself into a interest groups without a doubt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Automobile_Association</p>

Though your transitional period is great but I will save some text to respond to the rest of your question but I did read through your whole idea on a transitional plan!

Peter Merola: We don't need plans right now we're about recruiting, trying to get at critical mass for people to watch my DVD's, and to get enough people to eventually do things the Zeitgeist movement is wait for the market to crash even more which is predicted to crash in 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 etc.. years maybe longer. So TZM/TVP in no hurry

9) the illuminati and the conspiracy themes (9/11 internal job) makes the movement
look unproffesional

Billll's response: Because TZM/TVP is a conspiracy theorist group read up on a blog titled " The Zeitgeist Movement - A Critical Review" Author: Edward L Winston (link below)

http://conspiracyscience.com/articles/the-zeitgeist-movement/</p>

I'll put in my opinion copy/paste
from another forum

" When I watched the zeitgeist movies I found both to be fear monger movies that if I were to actually believe have no relative solution to them. When talking to Zeitgeist people they are more into conspiracy theories then actually solving problems or working on suchs things like automation.

I suppose I had no clue how TZM and TVP do to people until i came upon the movement and started talking to a individual who actually quit his job and focused the majority of his time on the movement, keep in mind this is a individual with a wife and a kid... He eventually snapped out of it... Soon to come I hear more stories for example a individuals soon actually went awol after watching the movie, so his father is now without a son. These are just one of many cases as to why I'm interested in outrageous conspiracy theories to understand how and why these individuals believe in such things without any scientific proof.

When it comes to Peter Merola, I feel he has a cult like mind set. wanting his follows to follow his every wim and every command and if your not obedient he will find ways to get that person out. Peter's ideas are flawed in a lot of respect and when to try and correct him he takes offense. When someone points out a flaw in any of my works I take that as helpful criticism no matter how insulting it is like Matt says in the CS forums "Just because it is insulting, doesn't me it isn't true". That is true I think Peter Merola should take the criticism and refine what he has, instead the guy just flips out and calls people who disagree with him as "mentally I'll". He doesn't see any criticism of his work as a opportunity to refine, he see's it as a threat, which is very dangerous considering he has people believing in his conspiracy theories...

That's the reason I have such a problem with the conspiracy theory cult. I also feel ZM/VP try to suck people into a dark abyss of hopelessness with their films, zeit culties truly do not know how to enjoy themselves. As fear is the strongest emotion a human has ZM/VP cult capitalizes on this emotion and only this emotion which means if the cult deviates from that theme which is to use conspiracy theories as a fear monger tactic they will losing their popularity but if Peter Merola does decide to us it they will be labeled even more a conspiracy theory cult group. In the end I suppose it doesn't matter I do not think ZM/VP will ever be implemented and it's more than likely a way for Peter Merola to get his name out there because he of course lacks credentials this is the only means he can do so to get anywhere it merely capitalizing on that.

Hence why Peter Merola is releasing his movie in the movie theater (he said so himself) so he can make profit off of it and get his credentials that way. I suppose I can't blame the guy for doing so but to manipulate others into this false thinking is wrong, and to capitalize on it is even wronger... After everything is said and done Peter Merola is going to have a lot of pissed off people. If Peter Merola had any sense milk the damn thing for all it's worth, then fake his own death either through a car crash or something else or pretend the NWO killed him, and take the money and get the hell out of dodge or I suppose he could tell (or twist it) people the truth and then get the hell out of dodge. Either way ZM/VP is doomed to fail from the start.

One last thing, for Peter Merola to say the movies are not the movement is completely ignorant. To say their is no leader to zeitgeist cult is completely fake and I find he's the biggest hypocrite to his own cult. "

Most who have watched the movies join the TZM/TVP cult. As Peter continues to say the movie are not the movement that is simply a complete and utter BS from TZM cult leader Peter Merola, trying to twist things around so he can have to most people at once watch his movie to earn the credentials he lacks in the real world through manipulation/ capitalizing through fear by using conspiracy theories.

Peter Merola responce: The Zeitgeist movement movies I and II are not the movement, but Zeitgeist III will be the movement. Just watch/handout the DVD's I made and you'll get it.

10) without forced labor like now ther isn't enough motivation there so that a economy can work

Billll's response: Well I don't believe anybody is forcing anybody to work just ask VTV. I'll throw in a few quotes from Matt on the conspiracy science forums about VTV.

>>Start of matt response to VTV

"Just because something is insulting doesn't mean it isn't true."

"Nah, I just want to know why someone who says how awful society is, is obviously living a life of tubby comfort thanks to it."

"It isn't VTV's fault that he is uneducated white trash.
It is the monetary system's fault.
"I stepped out of it because the United States is bullshit."
Get the fuck out then.
Oh never mind. You're too poor for any other country to want you.
Thank you for laying out all of your embarrassing personal life on the Internet for everyone to see though. If some of the 18 year olds in ZM see what they might turn into, they might just quit the movement."

"Also VTV is fat and ugly and Libertardians are stupid."

"To add, you know I am just kinda sick of your line about how everything is just so fucked up that unless we believe in the radical shift in social and political perspectives you propose we're all doomed.
You don't look very doomed to me unless we are talking about risk of heart attack. You look like you have all the comforts in the world at your fingertips and you take advantage of those comforts to the extent where you have grown boobs.
I mean really, where do you get off with this bullshit? Why should anyone take you seriously? Why should I read your endless, self indulgent rants when you can't even take care of yourself?
I think its just an excuse to sit back and do nothing but flap your gums about how awful everything is and rationalize never really doing a damn thing about it."

"TL;DR
Hey fat boy no one cares.
There's no way you got that big eating wholesome, non Big Business food and actually doing anything. Those are Twinkie Tits, sir. How many cheeseburgers do you wolf down before bemoaning society's ills on the Internet?"

"VTV's list of topics worthy of his attention:
1) Why he has boobs.
2) Whether or not he worked at McDonalds.
Anything else is beneath him."

"No Matt, your beneath me."
That's not funny. I could suffocate."

End of matt response to VTV<<

Billll's response: What I'm trying to say is VTV is a great example of the fact that no one forced to work. VTV lives off the system and from the looks of it lives fairly well. Well I think we can all agree VTV certainly doesn't look likes he's starving any like those kids in Africa based on his man boobs alone. So the idea of forced labor is false I gave a great example of VTV, so we the tax payers of the country have to carry the burden for such scum of society such as VTV because of their inability to get or hold a job.

"isn't enough motivation there so that a economy can work" <-- bit puzzled by the last part about their not being enough motivation to get the economy working I can only guess RBE and using in this context I guess you mean using money to eventually not use money and working towards RBE. I suppose my answer is if their is a will their is a way and if the right type of education and I'm not talking opening ones mouth but letting ones actions doing their talking we shall know, see the scientific process takes action not just a lot of talk which is what one gets from TZM/TVP but what's more amusing that they meaning the top peter Merola, and Fresco, Roxxanne pretend they know how to do in when in fact it's untested, yes that means not been test. So how is the scientific, ah yes it's not, but it fits into other categories such as a cult, religion, or a sect. You choose. I don't claim to know shitte fyi, just a guy with an opinion.

Peter Merola response: takes a look at Bills response to this question before hand and responds* It is possible to for RBE to work, we will have robots fix themsevles, and it will just happen and that's it. I recommend you watch "Future by Design" which is about Fresco and his toy models he builds and that will prove to you that it's possible. People will not need motivation to work robots will do it for them in TVP land so we can do other more productive task like look at the sky, or climb a tree, or VTV's favorite past time eating, or stare at the sky all day, eat a banana, fap it a few times, eat chocolate, etc... You won't have to ever think again cause machine will do it for you.

Billll last response rap up: Galaxycolonizer I thought your question are by far great question and I hope I answered all of them if not you can contact me on conspiracy science forum or come into the rbose irc server. go to www.rbose.org, chatroom should be on front of site hop in and I or somebody can chat to you a bit. As you can see TZM/TVP are not doing much of anything but a lot of chatter with no action. I'm currently working on a PS2 super computer, mumble development, and game emulation with RBOSE which is not what I really would want to be doing which is mainly automation but I don't have much time until medical school which happens in AUG. Again if you want to contact me please get at me from the medium above and I'll answer the question the best I can as I believe I am better qualified to answer your question than Peter Merola on his best and my worst day.

> start your own sex tribe with some hot women.

Actually, thats just what I want to do with my community building efforts..

See, the area I'm looking at, the land is cheap, there are no jobs, and women are leaving the area, so to readdress that issue, I'll need to import women into the area to rebalance the genders.

Being how the most cooperative folk I've found have come from Nordic countries..

There will also be a need to make sure the men there are fit and healthy, so looking at a fat limit in the community to make sure we aren't full of unattractive men. (Or else the women won't want to come..)

I reckon we will need fit men with well paid jobs to attract the women, correct ?

Point taken..........If I'm not mistaken that was basically what will cooper kept saying, until HE WAS KILLED BY THE NWO!!!!!!!!!
(ahem or shot by the police because he started shooting at them)

Do you think that Peter actully belives that they are only keeping him alive for that reason.

My counter argument would be how come THEY are able to stage 9/11 but they can't make it look like Peter overdosed on pepto bismal or something.