Skeptic Project

Here's an excellent video on Francisco D'Anconia explaining money that can help clear up Zeitgeisters' misconceptions about it being bad or evil.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GK_fRM8SO0&feature=PlayList&p=6C7192BB103F38EB&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=1

No need to watch part 2 since it sorta goes into a bias preference for gold and it goes into the negative aspects of coercive groups dictating or looting money (the latter still has some relevancy).

Here are 2 decent ones with funny accent impersonations that covers 2 economic topics related to money:

Subjective theory of value
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4wjnt1n9wU

Marginal Utility
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWUyaEASrvM&feature=related

The problem here is that the issue is pure perception(Like most things).

It's very easy to point out both the good and the bad of money. In my opinion, it does more harm then good, but in the society we live in, the way humans are conditioned(as has been discussed earlier in this thread) and with the technology we presently have, money is the most logical system to use.

But like the social and economic systems used before it, (and as I've stated earlier) we will eventually evolve past it. Being a father, every day I look at my son and wish for a world where people do things because they want to and not because they have to. Unfortunately that world is long from where we stand today.

I only see hording being a negative thing if the things the person is collecting are causing insanitary problems, the person is trying to live beyond their means or the person is making hording consume too much of their time. People wanting your stuff can even occur if you don't hoard or own much. The problem to me is more on the violator rather than the hoarder. I also don't see how society can evolve pass money all together since human interactions all together involves value exchanges, no one owns everything, and each person have different time preferences for things. But i can see where different currency ideas can emerge and certain technologies can lower the need to purchase or barter certain things.

@Alton, that's exactly why I said hording in the first place s bad, and maybe I should define hording in the context I use it as not only hording money but resources as well. So if the venus project were to be implemented just because their is no money doesn't mean life on venus is going to be great. People can horde resources towards their benefit, keep things to themselves, as the TZM cult video says create scarcity. Money actually levels the playing field as it can denote value towards a skill, product, or resource. Money makes collaboration possible through bringing skill, products, and resources all at the hands of the corporation/individual.

The venus project in my eyes is to much of a Utopian society. You have people like VTV who bathe in the concept of what I coin the terms of Fat-i-tis and Lazism, who already live in a Utopian society of their own, who do not contribute to society in any way shape or form, who live off the system like a big narcissistic parasite. The venus project is unproven, the zeitgeist movement worships the venus project like Christians worship the Heaven's both are in fact unproven ;) The venus project believes in centralization through technical means but that also increases vulnerability through individuals/groups with the means and know how to infect the central system to manipulate the hypothetical venus system to their means and all this without money. (sounds like technocracy does it? ah I'm a conspiracy theorist :O).

I see infections already happening in the venus project with people like VTV in power who VTV is too irresponsible and too incompetent to be a manager at McDonalds let alone be the spokes person for the venus project as I know other who believe it as well. Heck I bet since his wife excuse me EX-wife is gone the guy isn't responsible enough to take over the responsibly of paying his utility bills.

VTV is the type to point out other peoples flaws while ignoring his own glaring deficiencies. As a narcissist, VTV would probably naturally be drawn to a person who he is able to easily imprint his ever changing beliefs and opinions on. A person with an opinion of their own would only threaten VTV. He prefers a blank canvass. My personal take on the situation with VTV getting a divorce is that VTV's wife got tired of VTV relentless badgering. I cannot express strongly enough how critical he can be from what i've read/seen/and heard about him. VTV would rather stay home and frequent message boards than get a job and provide for his wife and children. If VTV ever discovered he couldn't be the boss as he think he is in the Venus project; he'd probably pick up his toys and find another group of fringe personalities to play with. It is only a matter of time until he alienates people in the zeitgeist movement/Venus Project. In general I can say that VTV is probably not the best representative for any movement that desires to be taken seriously.

One of the reasons I call VTV fat and poor is in fact that is true but also that I think if left unchecked VTV could become very dangerous. My instincts tell me that he is positioning himself as the heir apparent to Venus Project after their leader Fresco being is quite old (93 years of age), dies. This must not be allowed to happen. Although I disagree with the proponents of the Venus Project and zeitgeist movement on many issues and believe they are misguided; I also believe many of them genuinely want to improve the world. VTV would only take advantage of them such as what he is doing right now using TZM to get donation so he can buy computer at which he was successful at raising money towards one and raising money through donations to pay his utilities. VTV has the potential to be L. Ron Hubbard version 2.0.

In VTV's case and many other cases of the zeitgeist movement/venus project is the reason the venus project will not work. In the case of the venus project money isn't the problem the problem is incompetent people like VTV. This is also why the concept of money being bad is false. VTV has no money yet his motivation is their to still get power to still achieve something that is to be the spokes person for the venus project. What the hell does a spokes person do? Like Matt said money is bad when you have none and I can only say that money is a bad thing when you don't work for it but get it through welfare like VTV... When you are the scum of society like VTV the wife beater that's when money is bad and as a result other people who contribute to society have to pay for such diluted people. Money is a great collaborative tool, it's purely neutral, it helps exchange services and goods. To say money is bad with no positives to it is be completely one sided and when I watch the Zeitcult movie it was completely being one sided which is a fear monger tactic.

That's why I believe hording is bad as if one person has to much they control basically have ultimate control and say so of it. I suppose hording could be extended over to not only resources and money but power as well. Much like Fresco and Dr. Peter Joseph Merola, who continually preach one thing and do another and truely are the biggest hypocrites towards their own cause. These people horde power, and others quote them like the bible... peter said this, Fresco said this... Jesus said " He That Is Without Sin,Cast The First Stone", and God said... (after Fresco's dies) Well Fresco's interpretations could mean this, this and this... Money doesn't do this conspiracy theorist do this...

Thought I should throw this up from the Zeitcult TZM it's about money

http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=99999&func=view&catid=231&id=267122&limit=10&limitstart=20#268390

"renovatio: I've already somewhat stated this on another thread but I wanted to paraphrase it here and add some comments, because our problem really does lie with the monetary system and not oil. One of the things I think we can all agree on concerning oil is how bad it is for the environment, and that its use needs to stop.

Ruppert presents ideas about what to do when the monetary system has run its course and has exploiting and deregulated enough things on this planet including oil to bring the current system to its knees. The TZM and TVP on the other hand present ideas about how if we changed our behaviors and habits now real change could happen rather quickly before billions of people would have to die. Ruppert is hell-bent on collapse, and the TVP and TZM is guided towards a transition without collapse. This I believe is why Peter and Ruppert don't see eye to eye for the end result to our current problems.

Money is our problem it has and does facilitate the use of oil, and because of it this toxic substance is still being used, we have to outgrow our current childish system if we ever want to see real progress. He says let it fall, and then we can rebuild it from the rubble, we say that there doesn't need to be fall only a rebuild.

MarioBros, Peter thank you for your input, and may our litte spats never deter us from the real problems at hand."

ah ok so millions of gallons of oil spilling in the ocean is not as bad as money...

" we have to outgrow our current childish system if we ever want to see real progress." <-- sound like he ripped it directly from Peter Merola's lectures.

Still I do not see a sound argument as to why money is bad besides it's childish?

I agree, on a side note I'm learning a lot more about Alex Jones, he's a bit more entertaining at least LOL