Skeptic Project

Last night on Twitter a Twoofer @'ed me all butthurt about something I posted earlier in the day. I clicked on his profile and saw he is an MD specializing in "Holistic & integrative physician, bioidentical hormone replacement, BHRT, nutrition, HCG Diet, weight loss, maggot debridement, raw food." (Yeah, he's into health woo obviously).

Assuming for the sake of argument that he is a real doctor, I'm curious if any or all of you would change doctors if you happened to find out that your doctor was a Twoofer. I certainly would. Believing in nutty conspiracy theories is an indication of a serious defect in critical thinking, reasoning and logical inference. Since I believe it takes all three of those skills to be an effective doctor in diagnosing and treating illness, I would say that Twoofer doctors are incompetent by definition.

We came across Twooferism in the medical field with that Abe Hafez space beam nut, but I'm not sure I believe he was really a medical student. Here we have someone who at least purports to be a practicing doctor but who's obviously a conspiracy loon. What do you think?

Didn't that Poontz guy claim to be becoming a doctor as well?

Anyway, man oh man that's a list of failed and obsolete medical treatments.

I'd never go to a doctor that was a truther, if I found out he was, I'd leave, he clearly has the inability to tell good evidence from bad, how can I trust he can properly treat me?

But religion is common to something like 90% of humanity, conspiracy theories really aren't, especially in this case of 9/11 conspiracy theories. You're intentionally going against the grain in this regard.

I don't think it's irrelevant, believing in God isn't as stupid as believing the twin towers were demolished.

The fact that Muertos believes in God doesn't really bother me, because a lot of people do, most people do, and most people also understand that there's a difference between faith and reason. When it comes to truthers, they think what they believe is science, not faith; that's the difference between rational spirituality and just being delusional.

So I can accept a person who believes in a personal god as a skeptic, but not someone who rejects science by accepting pseudo-science as fact. I'm sure Muertos knows, and I think he's mentioned this before, that it cannot be proven what he believes, but if you ask any truther, it's not an admission of faith vs reason, it's "no, you're wrong, it's science, look at the evidence!" Granted there are some religious people like Kent Hovind like this, but most aren't, at least not in the west.

ETA: I'm also reminded of this particular geologist that believes in young Earth creationism, and actively rejects evidence that disproves it. That's on par with 9/11, but like I said, praying to a personal god that you know is based on faith and cannot be proven, is not the same thing, you're not polluting science with your belief.

I wouldn't care if a M.D twoofer was looking after me. I'm ok with whatever their ideology is to me until they start pedaling it to me, then I have a problem. Just because I happened to find out online that there ideology is that they believe 9/11 is a inside job doesn't mean their incapable of doing their job and that goes quadruple for a doctor. That's like finding out that a M.D. I go to is gay and therefore I will stop getting medical treatment from he/she, even though this individual has never shared this information from the start publicly to me.

I'd start having a problem with someone if they start recommending CT stuff as fact. If a M.D. starts recommending some herbal stuff instead of real medicine then their is a problem. Most people are not trained in medicine or the human anatomy, let alone can recognize herbal/natural crap. I think in a lot of ways it's a lack of education and critical thinking skills on the individual as to why they fall victim to conspiracy theory's in the first place, but that doesn't mean they can't do the job their trained to do.

In general you'll get bad car sales men, you get bad teachers and professors, and you'll get bad M.D's.. I think a person should be judged on the work they do not their ideological beliefs. Although I personally would avoid working with a a group that is filled with CTer's do to past experience; To an extent I wouldn't ignore advice a individual CTer puts forth, who happens have experience in a particular skill/academia but that's only to an extent. Meaning just because their an engineer who supports that 9/11 inside job doesn't mean their right or basing their information on the scientific method. Just because they may be a engineer doesn't make them an expert on something like buildings falling down.

The only reason I'd drop the doctor is because I like to have working relationships with people who work with me. If he or she got in my grill about twooferism, I'd drop their ass. But as long as we're talking about medicine its all fair game.


Also, being a doctor doesn't make one smart. A lot of doctors (and people I know who will soon be a doctor) are dumbasses who are at least capable of understanding their field and their field alone. I hate when people pretend to be a doctor as though its proof of intelligence.

I see it as a red flag of cognitive impairment.

I don't, unless someone is seriously crazy like the guy we had on CS some while ago, but he had bigger problems than just believing in 9/11 truth. I've met many people who've had superstitions or theories that were or sounded fairly crazy, but who were completely sane the rest of the time, sometimes even exceptionally intelligent and critical. It's not like someone is a skeptic 100% of the time, some things slip through one's radar and trutherism might be one of them, especially if you don't have a proper understanding of the science behind it.

Practical example: The guy who evaluates our response rates has to work with standard deviation and -error almost daily, yet he's still a fan of Ayurveda. He clearly doesn't apply the scrutiny with which he does his job - and which makes him question the validity of an entire mailing because the numbers are 7% below quota - to his beliefs about ancient Indian medicine. That doesn't mean he's incapable of thinking critically, he just fails or refuses to do so in this one instant.

So, I don't see trutherism as more than a slight indicator of naivety. It might make me want to confirm the doctor's ability to do his job, but not more than that.

I think in a way, the way I see a fat individual can be compared to how Muertos see's a twoofer. I think fat people are delusional, and cannot control themselves and the proof of this is because their fat. A fat person cannot say their skinny because of course the proof is very visual to me and others but to measure a persons ability to do the job based on being a twoofer is a lot harder since we cannot read minds their isn't any visual proof of their competence to do the job.

I see fat people in general as being lazy, delusional people. How can these people be trusted to do a job, when they don't even care enough to take care of themselves?

The more I think about this issue, the more I'm reminded that truthers tend to also believe many other conspiracy theories, or more susceptible to them. I'd worry that my doctor was into the alt-health conspiracy crap and thus incorrectly diagnose me or provide a treatment.

Quote from The Real Roxette

I'd worry that my doctor was into the alt-health conspiracy crap and thus incorrectly diagnose me or provide a treatment.

If my doctor was a Twoofer and into alt-health or health conspiracies, then I'd definitely drop them in no time. In fact, if my doc was into alt-health or health conspiracies I'd switch, Twoofer or not. Alt-health crap is directly related to their ability to do their job, so that would matter to me way more than being a Twoofer.

Also, being a doctor doesn't make one smart. A lot of doctors (and people I know who will soon be a doctor) are dumbasses who are at least capable of understanding their field and their field alone. I hate when people pretend to be a doctor as though its proof of intelligence.

I typically don't have a working relationship with lets say my veterinarian when my fish get sick. I look at a vet as doing their set of skills to make my fish feel better. Anything further than that like working on a project or something. I'd have more of a problem working with a CTer depending on their personality and I refuse to work with a all CT group. An all CT made group in my experience is a disaster always waiting to happen if one is a none CTer from the start who has critical thinking skills.

I agree with Falkner their are crappy doctor. Most of the crappy doctors never graduated a medical school in America. These not so good doctors usually graduate in some med school in a foreign country like the pacific islands, or in Cuba. They then do their residency training in America and when they work that out they become doctors. The person Peter Merola's brother Eric Merola made a documentary on never graduated from an American medical school and in my opinion I think what the guy is doing is disturbing, but yeah if you want to find the quacks all you have to do is look at their academia history and specifically look at where they graduated from. If the M.D. graduated outside of the U.S., that's a big big eyebrow raiser.

I'm not saying foreigners are bad but their not at a trained level of a American medical graduate and I don't say that lightly.

You do have exceptions to the rule. Julian M. Whitaker, M.D. who graduated from Emory University School of Medicine in Atlanta, Georgia, is into and promotes alternative medicine rather than real medicine that's been proven to work. He's the guy in Eric Merola's documentary who Eric promoted Whitakers credentials without telling the audience that Whitaker was already bias and into alternative medicine to begin with. Whitaker through Eric Merola's documentary would pop up randomly and promote the polish dudes work and criticize American government. So when looking into a doctors academia history make sure to look into groups he or she is apart of that may be CTish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Whitaker

I'm sure their are doctors out their such as Whitaker who believe in alternative medicine and that's unfortunate. These are the people I hope would not promote their beliefs in alternative medicine as a M.D. to anybody at least not on a professional level. People in general are not sophisticated enough to have a clue when it comes to anatomy, and medicine so for a M.D.'s to take advantage of this weakness to spew alternative medicine that's been unproven such as Whitaker does to people is a problem.

I don't have a problem with CT doctors, I have a problem with CT doctors who promote unproven methods to medicine such as alternative medicine practices. These doctors who promote alternative medicine need to do so not on professional level when they do. Abusing the title of a M.D. to promote alternative medicine hocus-pocus is wrong.