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Forum - What's the difference between TVP and Marxism?

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Agent MattPosted: Apr 14, 2010 - 17:22
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Genuine American Monster

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Discuss.

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Sil the ShillPosted: Apr 14, 2010 - 17:54
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Average weight of followers.

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Edward L WinstonPosted: Apr 14, 2010 - 18:18
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>> Average weight of followers.

Agreed.

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advancedatheistPosted: Apr 14, 2010 - 18:21
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The Marxists called their Venus Project "the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics."

Like Fresco, they also thought that their experiment would transform the nature of man. Refer to Leon Trotsky's final chapter (last four paragraphs) in his book, Literature and Revolution, which reads almost like an early draft of Fresco's Looking Forward:

http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1924/lit_revo/ch08.htm

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Agent MattPosted: Apr 14, 2010 - 18:48
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Genuine American Monster

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The personal dreams of a few enthusiasts today for making life more dramatic and for educating man himself rhythmically, find a proper and real place in this outlook. Having rationalized his economic system, that is, having saturated it with consciousness and planfulness, man will not leave a trace of the present stagnant and worm-eaten domestic life. The care for food and education, which lies like a millstone on the present-day family, will be removed, and will become the subject of social initiative and of an endless collective creativeness. Woman will at last free herself from her semi-servile condition. Side by side with technique, education, in the broad sense of the psycho-physical molding of new generations, will take its place as the crown of social thinking. Powerful “parties” will form themselves around pedagogic systems. Experiments in social education and an emulation of different methods will take place to a degree which has not been dreamed of before. Communist life will not be formed blindly, like coral islands, but will be built consciously, will be tested by thought, will be directed and corrected. Life will cease to be elemental, and for this reason stagnant. Man, who will learn how to move rivers and mountains, how to build peoples’ palaces on the peaks of Mont Blanc and at the bottom of the Atlantic, will not only be able to add to his own life richness, brilliancy and intensity, but also a dynamic quality of the highest degree. The shell of life will hardly have time to form before it will burst open again under the pressure of new technical and cultural inventions and achievements. Life in the future will not be monotonous.

More than that. Man at last will begin to harmonize himself in earnest. He will make it his business to achieve beauty by giving the movement of his own limbs the utmost precision, purposefulness and economy in his work, his walk and his play. He will try to master first the semiconscious and then the subconscious processes in his own organism, such as breathing, the circulation of the blood, digestion, reproduction, and, within necessary limits, he will try to subordinate them to the control of reason and will. Even purely physiologic life will become subject to collective experiments. The human species, the coagulated Homo sapiens, will once more enter into a state of radical transformation, and, in his own hands, will become an object of the most complicated methods of artificial selection and psycho-physical training. This is entirely in accord with evolution. Man first drove the dark elements out of industry and ideology, by displacing barbarian routine by scientific technique, and religion by science. Afterwards he drove the unconscious out of politics, by overthrowing monarchy and class with democracy and rationalist parliamentarianism and then with the clear and open Soviet dictatorship. The blind elements have settled most heavily in economic relations, but man is driving them out from there also, by means of the Socialist organization of economic life. This makes it possible to reconstruct fundamentally the traditional family life. Finally, the nature of man himself is hidden in the deepest and darkest corner of the unconscious, of the elemental, of the sub-soil. Is it not self-evident that the greatest efforts of investigative thought and of creative initiative will be in that direction? The human race will not have ceased to crawl on all fours before God, kings and capital, in order later to submit humbly before the dark laws of heredity and a blind sexual selection! Emancipated man will want to attain a greater equilibrium in the work of his organs and a more proportional developing and wearing out of his tissues, in order to reduce the fear of death to a rational reaction of the organism towards danger. There can be no doubt that man’s extreme anatomical and physiological disharmony, that is, the extreme disproportion in the growth and wearing out of organs and tissues, give the life instinct the form of a pinched, morbid and hysterical fear of death, which darkens reason and which feeds the stupid and humiliating fantasies about life after death.

Man will make it his purpose to master his own feelings, to raise his instincts to the heights of consciousness, to make them transparent, to extend the wires of his will into hidden recesses, and thereby to raise himself to a new plane, to create a higher social biologic type, or, if you please, a superman.

It is difficult to predict the extent of self-government which the man of the future may reach or the heights to which he may carry his technique. Social construction and psycho-physical self-education will become two aspects of one and the same process. All the arts – literature, drama, painting, music and architecture will lend this process beautiful form. More correctly, the shell in which the cultural construction and self-education of Communist man will be enclosed, will develop all the vital elements of contemporary art to the highest point. Man will become immeasurably stronger, wiser and subtler; his body will become more harmonized, his movements more rhythmic, his voice more musical. The forms of life will become dynamically dramatic. The average human type will rise to the heights of an Aristotle, a Goethe, or a Marx. And above this ridge new peaks will rise.

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If this was filled with spelling and grammar errors, I would swear it came from the ZM forums.

Reading people pontificate about what I need to do makes me feel feisty and want to do the exact opposite.

In fact, if those "new peaks" start to rise I'm gonna dynamite the motherfuckers.

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MuertosPosted: Apr 14, 2010 - 19:03
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I don't think the Venus Project is coherent enough to be said to have any sort of unifying ideology.

Yes, there are some clear parallels to Marxism. But don't forget Marxism wasn't all about economic distribution. There was a strong class consciousness aspect to it as originally conceived, which was why it adapted easily to become a political movement. Also, as originally conceived in 1848, Marx has an intellectual and ideological base to build on.

The Venus Project is one old guy puttering around in his garage. At least it was until it became a conspiracy movement.

Don't make it out to be more than it is.

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advancedatheistPosted: Apr 14, 2010 - 20:18
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@ Matt:

In fact, if those "new peaks" start to rise I'm gonna dynamite the motherfuckers.

Oh, I suspect the Venus Project's rulers will know what to do with malcontents like you:

He gazed up at the enormous face. Forty years it had taken him to learn what kind of smile was hidden beneath the dark moustache. O cruel, needless misunderstanding! O stubborn, self-willed exile from the loving breast! Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.

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Agent MattPosted: Apr 14, 2010 - 21:16
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
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@advancedatheist

Nah, I would be a Prole.

Fuck the Party.

Although, I did see the question of what to do with malcontents raised on the ZM forums. They were referred to as "patients."

Because if you don't go along with it, you're clearly "sick."

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