Skeptic Project

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42164455/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa/deck/msn

Posted: Mar 19, 2011 - 15:11

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CS Original

Posted: Mar 19, 2011 - 15:26

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Genuine American Monster

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Well, here it goes.

Posted: Mar 19, 2011 - 15:29

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CS Original

Explain lol.

Posted: Mar 19, 2011 - 15:31

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Genuine American Monster

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WAR

I guess as long as there's no boots on the ground its not that big of a deal. I still wonder how many dollars per second its costing to do something the rest of the world should be handling.

Posted: Mar 19, 2011 - 15:35

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CS Original

I thought so haha. You really think it'll spark something?

Posted: Mar 19, 2011 - 15:52

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Genuine American Monster

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Dunno.

Posted: Mar 19, 2011 - 15:59

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Ordo Ab Chao.

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Been a long time since we've stormed Tripoli. :3

Posted: Mar 19, 2011 - 16:01

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^lawl.

Posted: Mar 19, 2011 - 16:04

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@ Matt A Tomahawk Cruise missle costs about 1 Million dollars.

We've sent 112, (both US and UK forces).

Posted: Mar 19, 2011 - 16:07

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Was it really nesscasary?

#10

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_no-fly_zone

Posted: Mar 19, 2011 - 16:09

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The purpose was to eliminate Libyan air defenses so that foreign planes could enforce the "no fly zone" or something along those lines.

#11

Posted: Mar 19, 2011 - 16:18

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Ah, I see.

#12

Posted: Mar 19, 2011 - 16:56

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Genuine American Monster

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I thought most of the civilians were killed by people in trucks, not planes.

#13

Posted: Mar 19, 2011 - 17:50

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Yeah, but apparently we don't want planes in the air, so we're taking proactive measures.

I could be getting this wrong, so I suggest you dig deep.

#14

Posted: Mar 19, 2011 - 19:50

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All the conspiracy kooks are coming out of the woodwork now. Its all about oil! Plus the odd reference to the new world order.

#15

Brenton

Posted: Mar 19, 2011 - 19:53

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It's a much more difficult situation from past-recent wars, IMO - meaning that even fervent anti-war types cannot really argue against it in the way people have with Iraq/Afghanistan. I'm not really against this because it was arrived at through the UN, which is, in my opinion how all wars that're genuine should be mandated.

I find it interesting that the message initially from the anti-Gaddafi 'government' was first that they didn't want international powers intervening, to now apparently begging for international powers to intervene. Probably because it looked like Gaddafi was going to win?

Full text of resolution: http://www.politics.co.uk/features/foreign-policy/un-security-council-resolution-in-full-$21387854.htm

#16

Posted: Mar 19, 2011 - 20:14

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Well initially it looked like they would win and that Gaddafi's time was almost over. Once he started making gains they warmed to the idea of a no fly zone.

I've seen people asking why nobody is intervening in Bahrain or Yemen, or even currently stable countries like Zimbabwe and Cuba and that it somehow proves its all about oil (even though all those places have oil, maybe with the exception of Zimbabwe).

I think its just the idea of 'picking your battles wisely'. At the moment the situation in Libya has reached a crisis point, if nobody does anything they look like complete assholes who couldn't care less about freedom and not to mention Gaddafi has shown absolutely no willingness to negotiate or to enact reforms and has even claimed the rebels were agents of Al Qaeda and traitors.

At the end of the day if nobody intervenes its because they don't care about freedom and they want oil (BP already had oil contracts in Libya and Gaddafi said that countries who voted against the no fly zone would be rewarded). If someone does intervene it is all about oil and trying to put a puppet government in power.

Whenever anything happens you have a whole bunch of people who don't really know alot about politics and think the answer to everything is oil and wanting to take over the land, and can't see any other reasons behind actions and lack of actions.

#17

Posted: Mar 19, 2011 - 21:16

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Lifted from my reference.

"The Libyan no-fly zone is an on-going military operation approved by the United Nations Security Council on 17 March 2011.[3] The no-fly zone was proposed during the 2011 Libyan uprising to prevent government forces loyal to Muammar Gaddafi from carrying out air attacks on rebel forces."

#18

Posted: Mar 19, 2011 - 21:38

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Genuine American Monster

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Seems like a token gesture to me.

#19

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19XXTArAGaM

The Burger King

Posted: Mar 19, 2011 - 21:44

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I can't stop posting pictures of poop, what the fuck is wrong with me?

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From My perspective is to not get involved. I think America has been trashed and tarnished by the way we handled the Mobarak situation this was a opportunity possibly by American to throw what I'd call redemption bombs onto Libya.

Although I disagree with these bombings I have seen the Tomahawk missile in action it's pretty cool.

Tomahawk Missile Variants

#20

The Burger King

Posted: Mar 19, 2011 - 21:44

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I can't stop posting pictures of poop, what the fuck is wrong with me?

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#21

Posted: Mar 19, 2011 - 21:45

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It's also an "unconstitutional war" according to infowars.
http://www.infowars.com/obama-declares-unconstitutional-war-on-libya/

#22

Posted: Mar 19, 2011 - 21:55

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Why is it only a token gesture? Is that good or bad for this situation?

#23

Posted: Mar 19, 2011 - 22:15

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Totally agree with you, Bill.

#24

Brenton

Posted: Mar 19, 2011 - 22:40

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@Chris: I'm not even going to bother reading that article at the moment, but if I had to take a guess InfoWars is saying it's unconstitutional because the decision was made by the United Nations and that means the US is surrendering sovereignty/decision-making-powers to the UN blah-blah-blah? I'm not going to be surprised at all if that's in there when I read that later tonight.

Ez said: I've seen people asking why nobody is intervening in Bahrain...

David Cameron has said something to the effect that there's a 'race against the clock' to stop an 'imminent bloodbath' if action isn't taken re: Bahrain too.

In the last year I've kind of warmed to the idea (to a certain degree) that democratic affluent nations should exercise their power to bring a better life for others. ("Bomb for democracy" as some call it). I just don't know quite where I stand on that, re: what you're saying Bill.

#25

Posted: Mar 19, 2011 - 23:01

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@pretty: You guessed correct.

#26

Posted: Mar 20, 2011 - 01:51

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Well I think the best way to bring democracy is by using pressure or 'soft power' as it is called by some people. Although most of those countries are resistant to pressure especially when it involves them surrendering some of the power they currently enjoy, and America and Europe don't want to push their luck too much.

Hopefully some of the leaders in the region will take lessons from what has already happened and take steps themselves to make a transition to democracy that would not necessarily require them to cede power, such as a constitutional monarchy with an elected parliament and prime minister. In Oman they are already talking about reforms and hopefully in Morocco too.

The only other option is for people to bring about change themselves, although in this case they need to make sure that someone else doesn't take power and then leave everything as it was before. Things like womens rights and religious freedom especially need to be taken into account as you can't have a proper democratic society without those.

#27

Posted: Mar 20, 2011 - 09:55

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Genuine American Monster

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I genuinely don't give a shit about Libyans.

#28