Skeptic Project

Posted: Apr 09, 2010 - 10:22

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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

"He apparently worked in the airline industry (the company that is currently known as Northrup Grumman)."

I was kinda hoping for something a little more justified for the hero worship Fresco receives.

#31

http://www.amazon.com/Inventions-Patented-Works-Buckminster-Fuller/dp/0312434790</p>

Posted: Apr 09, 2010 - 10:40

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Level: 3
CS Original

@ Jimbo:

One thing that I wonder is that in the beginning (and throughout) Future by design they discuss his numerous patents. It shouldn't be too hard to search patent databases for anything submitted by Fresco.

Saying that someone has accumulated some patents, doesn't mean the patents have amounted to anything. Buckminster Fuller, who resembles Fresco, patented a number of his inventions. In fact, you can find a book describing all of them here:

But Fuller's "inventions" haven't transformed our material culture because they don't work very well. Seriously, who builds Geodesic Domes these days? The ones I know of date from the 1960's, which give them a kitschy, retrofuture reputation.

Again, I contrast Fuller and Fresco with Ray Kurzweil, and Dean Kamen, for that matter. The latter two celebrity inventors have some practical, useful things to show for their lives (except for Kamen's Segway; we didn't need a technological solution to the problem of having to walk).

#32

Posted: Apr 09, 2010 - 10:43

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Level: 3
CS Original

@ Matt:

I was kinda hoping for something a little more justified for the hero worship Fresco receives.

Yes, we should let a cutting-edge aeronautical engineer from the 1940's tell us how to run the world in the 21st Century.

#33

Posted: Apr 09, 2010 - 10:51

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Brainwashing you for money

Level: 15
CS Original

His patents I know of are as follows:

http://s1023.photobucket.com/albums/af354/anticultist/frescos%20ancient%20%20patents/

None of which are any use today or of any relevance to his city technology or sustainable energy.

In fact one is a BS wing which is more than likely completely dangerous, one is a camera reel changer, the other two are drawing utensil trays :(

All outdated shit from the 1960s
Is this stuff really going to redesign the world ?

#34

Posted: Apr 09, 2010 - 11:02

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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

Wait until you hear my idea to revolutionize the fashion industry!

Wait for it...

BELL BOTTOMS!

All I need is a billion dollars and this revolution can begin.

Who wants to donate?

#35

Posted: Apr 09, 2010 - 11:04

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Level: 3
CS Original

@ anticultist:

You have to look at Fresco with the eyes of faith. The people who've fallen under his spell resemble the ones who go on pilgrimages to see images of the Virgin Mary in burned tortillas.

#36

Posted: Apr 09, 2010 - 11:05

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Brainwashing you for money

Level: 15
CS Original

There never was any classroom. People sat on a couch in his living room at the peak of the membership in Miami. Over half the pictures in the video, including classrooms, is “stock video” that the film maker took from some video library. The people you list were all volunteers who tried to contribute to his cause at one time or another. They come and go like a revolving door. They come in “excited” and “inspired”, and leave “despondent”, knowing that the organization is about teaching, but not necessarily about “team work” and “doing”. It has always been a one man show, and always will be. I compare it with “grade school”. It’s a “crucial” experience towards teaching us the 3 “R”s, it prepares us for the real world or college, but the course is fixed and limited. You will never learn Calculus, Chemistry or Physics there. It’s a nice place to visit, “but I wouldn’t want to live there” as the old saying goes. But, I must stress that it is up to the individual, to decide when they have had enough. Some people have had enough after 1 lecture, others continued to learn for several years before leaving. 90% of the lecture content has not changed since the 1950’s. And that’s OK. That’s what grade school is about. Should we stop teaching basic math in grade school simply because it was taught 100 years ago? No, children still need to learn 1+1 before they move on to Calculus. We can’t start children on Calculus (at least, not with current technology). We need Fresco to pull us out of the “mental mud” that society exposes us to as children, in that he teaches us to think more clearly, with our “brains full of mush”. BUT, then that moment must come, and only “you” will know when that time “is”, and you are told “time for you to leave” (either by Fresco, or your inner voice)….

#37

Posted: Apr 09, 2010 - 11:06

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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

@anticultist,

So basically Fresco relies on woo while saying he hates woo.

Perhaps he is just fucking senile.

#38

Posted: Apr 09, 2010 - 11:08

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Brainwashing you for money

Level: 15
CS Original

He is a strange character and full of shit in my opinion. period

#39

Posted: Apr 09, 2010 - 11:15

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Level: 3
CS Original

@ anticultist:

That sounds like accounts of people's "spiritual" questing. Replace "Fresco" with "the Buddha," and it would make about as much sense.

#40

Posted: Apr 09, 2010 - 11:20

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Brainwashing you for money

Level: 15
CS Original

@atheist yes I know there is a lot of woo and spiritual leadership/technical guru/societal master that is whirling around this guy. In fact I will go so far as to say he fucking stinks of it.

He seems to get a kick out of it if you ask me, he claims he doesnt want it , yet he seems to always be surrounded by it and participating in it. Plus he seems to make a living and cash from it

Why is that ?

#41

Posted: Apr 09, 2010 - 12:01

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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

"90% of the lecture content has not changed since the 1950’s. And that’s OK."

lolwut

I'm pretty sure science has changed since the 1950s.

Woo has stayed pretty much the same though.

This isn't about science at all. Its about Fresco's extremist ecological beliefs and misanthropy. People like Fresco have ruined ecology.

#42

Posted: Apr 09, 2010 - 12:22

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Brainwashing you for money

Level: 15
CS Original

I know its not alright at all, like you say 1950s technology and concepts were outdated in 1960.

#43

http://v-radioblog.blogspot.com/2010/04/reply-to-euripide-sneed-on-anticultist.html</p>

Liz

Posted: Apr 13, 2010 - 21:48

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Level: 0
CS Original

@Anticultist

I asked about this stuff and I was told to check out this blog for a reply:

I guess that's VTV's blog?

#44

Posted: Apr 13, 2010 - 22:01

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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

I didn't get the impression that the person commenting on the blog entry was angry and bitter at all.

I got the impression that he was still trying to find good things to say about Fresco while at the same time saying Fresco ripped him off. It seemed like he went to great pains to avoid saying Fresco ripped him off. He still rationalized it as just being part of Fresco's harmless and wacky genius. I came away from it thinking he was a fool for still trusting Fresco. Clearly, others came away with something else.

The response to that is a pretty nasty hit piece. I don't understand the rationale behind this at all. Why is it so hostile?

Regardless, haven't people wanted some transparency in TVP for quite some time? Is this what it takes to get some? And if this is what it takes to get some, how can people trust it when given "under the gun" so to speak?

I don't know who's telling the truth, but that reply is pretty nasty and I find myself wondering why. I find it real hard to believe that Fresco's remained friends with people for years with shit like this. That simply doesn't make any sense when you take into account other peoples' accounts of dealing with him.

Maybe this will appeal to the hardcore fans, but to me this just screams bunker mentality. I would be embarrassed to post such a thing if I was in some sort of position of authority.

#45

This is the claim they are talking about:

Sky

Posted: Apr 13, 2010 - 22:49

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Level: 3
CS Original

Well, lets take a look at some things:

Jacque and Roxanne quoted on VTV's blog:

We now have just compiled 15 of these lectures on three 5 CD sets and on almost all of them you can hear Jacque at the end say it is $3.00 for non-members and $2.00 for members of Sociocyberneering not the $10 -$20 this person claims Jacque charged. This helps to show you what this person says below is utterly false in regards to what Jacque used to charge

His income from giving lectures at his home was only $10-$20 per lecture, 2 or 3 times a week. Roxanne, being an unemployed art major, helped a little with the rent.

But wait, check out one more thing Euripide Sneed said:

Yes. It was very common to bring a tape recorder to the lectures. Sometimes 1 person would bring one. Other times several people would bring one. Admission varied between $1 per lecture session to $3 per lecture session depending on what year it was. In the 70’s it was $1 per session, in the 80’s it was $2-$3 per session.

When he said "$10-$20 per lecture" what he must have meant was that Jacque Fresco made $10-20 total from the 10 or so people who showed up and paid $1-$3 each. They have taken his words out of context. His actual claim about the cost of admission is $1-$3, the same amount that they state, there is no discrepancy.

Jacque and Roxanne are the ones who are lying here. Not Euripide Sneed.

#46

Posted: Apr 14, 2010 - 05:59

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Brainwashing you for money

Level: 15
CS Original

He will see it and reply, vtv tried to post it on the blog as well, denied.

Liz is like vtvs little secretary isnt she, popping in passing on the zm memos hehe

#47