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Wolf Bird | Posted: Jan 23, 2011 - 09:13 |
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I shoot you dead. Level: 9 CS Original | My big problem is the following: I do agree that market economics causes some serious problems. Greed, hoarding, debt, poverty, hunger, inequality, environmental degradation, etc. I don't think anyone on this forum thinks everything in the world as it stands is all hunky-dorey. And, I think it is fair to question its long-term sustainability. How long you want to consider the long-term, I don't know. However, as NWO Florist pointed out, one thing market economics and capitalism does do is encourage innovation and with the sustainability thing, that's getting more and more prominent as time goes on. That said, I am not convinced that an RBE and what TZM advocates will solve the above problems. Or that it won't create new ones. And what bothers me with TZM as a whole is that they really do not accept any criticism of their ideology, or the notion that it may not work or create new problems. Not accepting criticism is a big red flag. I think Kaiser hit it right on when he said saying markets are a problem and supporting RBE are different. Finding an academic who criticizes the status quo is as easy as walking into a political science department at any university. | |||||
#31 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
Kaiser Falkner | Posted: Jan 23, 2011 - 09:24 |
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HAIL HYDRA Level: 6 CS Original |
This is a huge problem I have with your form of argumentation: you over simplify to the point of absurdity. Why wont RBE ever take off? It has the same inherent flaws that many systems of commune and socialist polity have had including the immense tragedies of implementation. There is nothing in its philosophy that will ever effectively overcome ingrained cultural and normative standards across the globe, and it completely overlooks the inherent complexities that exist in all forms of social life that do not allow for the kind of horizontal compression necessary for it to exist. Support for any form of RBE is tantamount to closing ones ears and humming loudly in an effort to drown out the unsurmountable nuances of the world that keep it from being anything like the vision RBE supporters want it to be. Its a position that demands a lack of understanding of real political economy and a lack of comprehension for the sheer diversities of ontological interpretation between communities. The fact that you treat this theory seriously speaks remarkably poorly for the grasp you have on the way things are in the broadest and narrowest sense. And my opposition to this movement has nothing to do with flimsy moralistic and normative views about objective conditions and EVERYTHING to do with is sheer lack of orientation towards the real world. The films may attempt to say "this is wrong with the world" and no one would disagree that there is injustice and inequality in the world. That isnt a particularly revolutionary or impressive claim. In fact, its the lowest form of critique anyone can make and it sits firmly in the throne on banality. What TZM proposes, however, is so absurd from every corner of rational thought that one has to wonder if they are capable of contextualizing their program in any pragmatic sense. RBE will not only fail because the kinds of technology they seem to rely on doesn't exist, but because their views of the roots of human ills are completely misplaced. But maybe I expect too much from people. Maybe I do expect people to read something or go somewhere else in the world before they start talking about "solutions." Maybe its far too much to ask that people actually stop to admit that the world is way more complicated than pretty little systems of inequality. But you know, I do believe the world will change. Its changed in the past, and it will in the future. But it doesnt change the same everywhere and not at the same rate. And it wont be RBE that makes a difference- it will be the people who see beyond the two-dimensional version of the problems in the world and want a solution that matters in a deeper, more realistic sense. | |||||
#32 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
Agent Matt | Posted: Jan 23, 2011 - 09:38 |
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Genuine American Monster Level: 70 CS Original | If the first film was really inconsequential, Merola would have distanced it from TZM and Brenton wouldn't have ragequit over that very issue. Brenton's full of it. | |||||
#33 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
Brenton | Posted: Jan 23, 2011 - 09:52 |
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Level: 0 CS Original |
The reason I quit is because I perceived that he had not. I now don't think that at all. And no, I'm not going to debate or reason why my mind has changed because I'm not going to get into a circular argument. Not up for discussion. Couldn't care less to play argument with the two posts above Matt's. Sorry. | |||||
#34 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
Wolf Bird | Posted: Jan 23, 2011 - 09:55 |
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I shoot you dead. Level: 9 CS Original | Wasn't expecting or hoping for an argument. I was just reading the previous posts and I decided to offer my own views. | |||||
#35 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
Agent Matt | Posted: Jan 23, 2011 - 09:57 |
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Genuine American Monster Level: 70 CS Original | Uh huh, sure Brenton. | |||||
#36 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
Brenton | Posted: Jan 23, 2011 - 10:00 |
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Level: 0 CS Original | I hope you don't think that I expect you to take me seriously, or vice-versa. I mean, seriously, look at 90% of posts on this forum Matt. LOL. | |||||
#37 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
Agent Matt | Posted: Jan 23, 2011 - 10:02 |
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Genuine American Monster Level: 70 CS Original | I think you like to pretend you don't take it seriously when you're obviously wrong about whatever it is you were so passionately posting about. Also, you're still a liar. | |||||
#38 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
Brenton | Posted: Jan 23, 2011 - 10:04 |
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Level: 0 CS Original | I'm glad I don't take you seriously. Otherwise being called a liar might piss me off. Too bad it doesn't bother me. Call me a liar as much as you want because I know who I am better than you. | |||||
#39 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
Agent Matt | Posted: Jan 23, 2011 - 10:06 |
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Genuine American Monster Level: 70 CS Original | I'm sure it doesn't bother you. That's why you're commenting on it. Liar. | |||||
#40 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
Brenton | Posted: Jan 23, 2011 - 10:08 |
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Level: 0 CS Original | Well here's a final comment with no substance to emphasise that I don't give a fuck then. | |||||
#41 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
The Real Roxette | Posted: Jan 23, 2011 - 10:14 |
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There ARE more sluts in public schools. Shut up and let me explain. Level: 8 CS Original | Are you saying he has distanced himself from the first film Brenton? If that's the case, I'm confused, and perhaps you can help explain to me why he re-released it along side a "220 page source guide"? | |||||
#42 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
Joe | Posted: Jan 23, 2011 - 10:39 |
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Level: 8 CS Original | Beauty Killer the first film matters because one TZM still passes them out. | |||||
#43 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
Muertos | Posted: Jan 23, 2011 - 11:30 |
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Paid Disinformation Blogger Level: 14 CS Original | Brenton, your analysis of me, my argument with the Zeitgeist Movement and my motives is absolutely asinine, as is just about everything else you've posted on this board in the past 24 hours. It's clear that you never left the Zeitgeist Movement. Your manner of reasoning is so bizarre, irrational and illogical, and your view of the world so warped and oversimplified, that it's obvious you're still heavily under the sway of woo thinking even if you no longer specifically endorse conspiracy theories. What clinches it is your absolute certainty that, at age 20 and having barely started your education, you're completely right about everything and your worldview is so unquestionably and unshakably true that anyone who disagrees with you is not only wrong, but has something wrong with them. That's a hallmark of Zeitgeist retardation as well. You're Exhibit A on the list of examples of how the Zeitgeist Movement takes otherwise intelligent young peoples' minds and turns them into incoherent mush. | |||||
#44 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
Evil Elvis | Posted: Jan 24, 2011 - 02:18 |
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STFU! Level: 1 CS Original | RBE is crap, give each household in China a washing machine and a car and then let's talk about having enough resources on the planet. | |||||
#45 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
Wolf Bird | Posted: Jan 24, 2011 - 07:24 |
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I shoot you dead. Level: 9 CS Original | ^and there's that. | |||||
#46 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
domokato | Posted: Jan 24, 2011 - 13:40 |
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Level: 4 CS Original | @Muertos: Dunning-Kruger effect is the term you're looking for | |||||
#47 | [ Top | Reply to Topic ] |
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