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Forum - Time to put "nanotechnology" to rest

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advancedatheistPosted: Oct 17, 2010 - 18:07
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Level: 3
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This blog post by physicist Scott Locklin articulates what I've thought for awhile about Eric Drexler's "nanotechnology":

Nano-nonsense: 25 years of charlatanry
http://scottlocklin.wordpress.com/2010/08/24/nano-nonsense-25-years-of-charlatanry/</p>

Real chemists called bullshit on Drexler's fantasy-tech about a decade ago:

The Once and Future Nanomachine, by George M. Whitesides:
http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~rau/phys600/whitesides.htm

Of Chemistry, Love and Nanobots, by Richard E. Smalley
http://cohesion.rice.edu/NaturalSciences/Smalley/emplibrary/SA285-76.pdf

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AltonPosted: Oct 17, 2010 - 19:19
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I don't think the technology is bullshit in general, but there are some fantasy like claims of nanotechnology out there or claims about the technology that isn't feasible right now.

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advancedatheistPosted: Oct 17, 2010 - 19:42
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But why the delay? Real technologies can progress rapidly if they exploit physics correctly. The laser, weak cousin to science fiction's death ray, went from a laboratory curiosity in 1960 to a versatile tool in science, medicine and engineering by the 1970's. Suppose that in 2010 people still wrote about all the wonderful things they predict lasers will do someday, but they couldn't produce the goods?

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NanosPosted: Oct 18, 2010 - 00:34
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The delay is due to two main issues as far as I can gather, its both technically a difficult technologly to master, we are at the very early stages and also political in that funding and matters of decision making are slow when it comes to research direction and speed of.

I do think though that a well funded and focused team could have progressed much faster in the last few decades.

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Edward L WinstonPosted: Oct 18, 2010 - 03:42
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President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho: porn star and five-time ultimate smackdown wrestling champion!

Level: 150
CS Original

Nano-technology in the sense of bacteria-sized robots that can do cool shit is still a long time away, though apparently TZM thinks if you just use the "systems approach" you can figure out all that stuff tomorrow, and that "all problems can be solved by nano-technology." The last part isn't official TZM rhetoric, but I've seen it said by several members, so it seems to be a belief many have.

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advancedatheistPosted: Oct 18, 2010 - 10:14
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@Special Ed:

A "long time away" can apply to physically plausible projects which our current civilization can't tackle for economic or thermodynamic reasons, like proposals for re-engineering the solar system to make more human-habitable worlds. Astronomer Fritz Zwicky speculated about this sort of thing circa 1950. He argued that we knew enough physics back then to show how to do it, even if we won't have the ability to start the job for many generations:

http://books.google.com/books?id=PtwDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA65&dq=fritz+zwicky&hl=en&ei=NF-8TOn2F428sAO8062XDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=fritz%20zwicky&f=false

By contrast, I read Drexler's popular book Engines of Creation after it came out in 1986, or literally a generation ago. (Children born that year now have adult jobs and responsibilities, not to mention having started their own families.) Drexler didn't claim that his ideas would require some advanced civilization in several centuries to come to fruition, but rather that we could actually build his nanotech thingies in the careers of people alive at the time of his original writing.

That led to the sense of urgency I noticed in the 1990's in all the wonkish masturbation about the alleged benefits and risks of nanotech as an imminent development. Science writer Ed Regis, who had popularized and followed the hoopla for years, eventually saw the futility of it all by 2001. (MNT means "molecular nanotechnology"):

http://www.nanotech-now.com/ed-regis-interview-122001.htm</p>

1. Considering where you thought we'd be by 2002, how do you evaluate current technological progress?

Actually, not being a fan of prediction-making, I had no expectations at all of where'd be at any given stage in the game. But I am amazed at the rate of technological progress, which has been extremely fast, in my view. The one exception is canonical molecular nanotechnology, where actual progress has been slim to nil.

4. Besides getting themselves informed about MNT, what proactive steps can the general public take to help us steer clear of the potentially dangerous possibilities [such as the Gray Goo or "runaway" scenario]?

My own view is that the general public should forget about these and other nanotechnology scenarios, good or bad, and concern themselves with other things. There has already been more than enough theorizing about MNT and its possible consequences than we need, and than is probably healthy. . .

7. With the advent of mature MNT, where do you see the most drastic changes occurring? How can society and industry prepare for it?

"Advent of mature MNT"? You've got to be joking. The one thing that has most impressed me about MNT since I've been aware of the field, which I guess has been for about 15 years, is the snail's pace of progress toward the goal. We've seen tons of conferences, books, theories, predictions, discussions, workshops, institutes, companies, scenarios, simulations, pictures, articles, initiatives, meetings, study groups, Web sites, magazines, newsletters, matching grants and unmatching grants, etcetera. The one thing we haven't seen is any substantial progress toward MNT.

Because I suspect Drexler's ideas incorporate fundamental misconceptions about physics, I predict that Regis's assessment will make as much sense in 2020 as it does today.

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EdPosted: Oct 18, 2010 - 17:17
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Level: 10
CS Original

It seems they are more annoyed at the science being mislabled and mischaracterised as being "nano-tech" when they see nano tech being about something specific, the nano sized replicating machine stuff.

Personally it seems that its practically semantics. Don't just say nano technology is nonsense, to most people that includes all the things they say isn't nano-technology. Tell us rather than the self replicating machines is not going to happen, or whatever it is they are referring it.

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