Skeptic Project

Page 3
Trumpet of God has a big following in India
http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?6,62059,page=5

Philly: These people are also reaching others via skype. They have a large following in India as well (preying on the vunerable). Michelle 123, keep doing what you're doing. As they are a small group, they tend to slip under the radar, and because they don't appear to ask for any money they are seen as harmless. I agree with an earlier post which stated that this man Timothy is gaining 'prestige' by his following, rather than money. You need go no further than to read about the 'New Covenant' in Jesus Christ. The trumpeters still believe very much in the old covenant...

Page 12
How this person got caught up in the trumpet of god
http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?6,62059,page=12

LLG: I was unfortunately caught up in this cult until a little while ago, I appreciate all your efforts to raise awareness. I would still be there had it not been for my family hiring a professional exit counselor to do an intervention. I am still going through a recovery period because of the mind control they employ to reform people's thoughts and get them to be mindlessly obedient (or what they call "Trust with abandonment" and "Obedience without expectation"). I have been left scared and confused, unable to trust even my own thoughts and perspectives but thankfully I am on the mend. I have gone through bouts of anxiety and depression and have had nightmares about something evil "getting" me. I know there are many good people being deceived into giving up their families, careers, possessions and any part of their lives which do not fall into the group's way of thinking. Spending many hours a day recruiting (or so the group calls it "trumpeting") both in person and on many internet venues such as facebook and youtube. I myself used to spend at least 2.5 to 3 hours studying and approximately 2 hours every day "trumpeting" plus the group study sessions 3 or 4 times a week each at about 4 hours long, it doesn't leave much time for anything else.

Frogla, keep praying for Trent , he's a good man and just got involved in the wrong group and his whole identity is now wrapped up in Trumpet call. Please pray for them all, that they might have their eyes opened to the truth and that the deception would be revealed. I know when I left, things were ramping up quickly with their thoughts of the end being very near, and many will do anything (as I would have were I still there) thinking they are doing God's will.

Page 12:
continues to talk about her experience with trumpet of god.

http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?6,62059,page=12

LLG: I of course didn't realize it was a cult when I started, but I began reading the letters after I saw a video on youtube. They sparked my interest as I had already been feeling that we are nearing Jesus' return for some time and something in these letters grabbed hold of that. I was at first just curious and so I kept reading them. They brought up answers to questions which had been bugging me and hadn't been satisfied with answers I recieved from others I'd talked to (like Sabbath observation) and that intrigued me even further.
The letters point to things like Joel 28-29
(28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy , your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: 29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit)
and since I felt the return was near I thought "maybe this is a prophet of the last days".

There was mystery and intrigue in the fact that there is little information given about the man Timothy himself as well, which seemed different than others calling themselves prophets on the web, he seemed humble because he didn't "toot his own horn" and he wasn't looking for money. He seemed to give all the glory to God and that also drew me further in, knowing that a true prophet of God would not bring glory to himself but to God. Needless to say I eventually began to believe fully that these were messages from God. At first I was just reading the letters on my own, I had stopped going to Church and was observing Sabbath on my own. After a while, I was invited by Trent to come to the group study meetings after I met him through a website. I was excited and started attending them (4 of them each week). I felt closer to God and grateful to be chosen to be one of the few in this group, it was like God himself was directing my life (which I know he always is but even more obviously than before) and I was absolutely on fire for Him. I strived to obey in all things out of love for Him, I ached to get rid of the "world" in me and cried out to God to break everything that was standing in the way between Him and I. Of course out of letters and group studies I recieved the answers on how that could happen, at first it was encouragement and the leaders modeling their own lives that led me to do things, but later it got very demanding people were being kicked out if the didn't obey the demands (leave the church because the groups view is that they are all led by leaders who have been decieved and were prideful and stubborn they were called "man-made" churches, believe in no eternal torment in hell, give of your money, time, strength, everything... or else) . I completely separated from my family emailing them all to tell them I couldn't be with them if they rejected the letters (because I believed they were God's word) and didn't accept Jesus in thier lives, I gave money and even jewelry (because I didn't have enough money) out of fear that I would have to leave the group if I didn't give enough. I nearly lost my husband (I didn't separate from him but was basically living very much apart from him) and felt like a martyr when he wanted to kick me out of my home. My daughter apparently felt very distanced from me because I was always on the computer, which she told others (I found out during my intervention).

I was involved in the group for only about 4 months but I was so deep in I would have put everything on the line at the drop of a hat. A couple of weeks ago my mom called me up and asked me to come over to explain the letters to her and the rest of my family, they were all there waiting and wanted to know more. I was at first skeptical but had told them I would if they only asked, so I went. After I got there a stranger showed up and started talking to me about the group, asking me questions. I didn't like them at first because they were the "scholar" in my eyes we had been told would try to decieve us with "man's doctrine" and even practically yelled at my family that I wanted to leave unless they wanted to ask me questions about the letters (excluding the stranger). Later in the process (it was 4 days long) I found out that the stranger was an "exit-counselor" and was shown alot of things about the group that slowly weared at my defenses. I was shown that Timothy and his wife bring in $93,000 and owned 3 or 4 homes in several locations in the US. I was adamant that the letters lined up with Scripture as well but was told that many groups like this will give you mostly "good stuff" but then slip a little "bad stuff" in there, then I was later shown things like the fact that the letters say if you reject the letters but believe the Bible you are denying God, when in the cult that seemed right to me (by that time I had totally bought in) but during the intervention I could see that is not scriptural at all. I was also taught about mind-control and realized that the group was in fact performing mind-control techniques on us, there were 8 "warning signs" and this group exibited all of them. I even found out that one technique many groups use in mind-control is to assess if person is a "Feeler", "Thinker" or "Doer" and this group did that to me in the guise that it was a "counseling session" that Trent wanted to practice (I'm not sure if Trent knew what it was for or not). That information can then be used to "tailor" information that comes to you, to hieghten your experience and "confirm" the messages to you so that you internalize them easier.

I have had ups and downs in recovery, and have had to make amends with alot of people but I am happy to be free and am re-discovering God's true Grace. He is teaching me to worship in the storm and praise Him in ALL things and I know He will restore and heal me completely as only He can! I hope the others can be freed as well and I hope that Timothy will be turned from his ways. Anyone who comes across these letters, PLEASE do not fall for the deception because that is what it is.

Page 19
LLG went through a series of cult criteria lists
http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?6,62059,page=19

LLG: I just read it this morning and Hebrews 13:3 has new meaning now to me and I believe is the motivating factor for my posts.

Remember those in prison, as if you were there yourself. Remember also those being mistreated, as if you felt thier pain in your own bodies.



For anyone who this may help, I have posted how I see this group relating to the ten warning signs of an unsafe group/destructive cult:

1. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability
This one is hard for a trumpeter to see because they will see God as the ultimate authority, but when you look at it closely, there is absolutely no real room for questioning or verifying anything that Timothy says because he is placed between God and people as the only conduit of God's messages (even though he says there are 144,000 he hasn't even mentioned one other person outside the group). There are a few others in the group who have apparently received messages but they all need to be "proofread" by Timothy (when he reads it over with the Lord). This "church" as they sometimes call themselves has elders but they are Timothy's in-laws and they defer to him because he is "the prophet", so really he is the only head.

2. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry
God said to test the spirits, but in this group if you just can't get it and you don't exactly agree with what they believe, you will be ostracized (and some were even kicked out) because you don't share the exact same beliefs. There were several who were "departed" because they did not believe that there is no eternal torment in hell, or they did not leave the church (mainstream churches or what the group calls "man-made churches"), or they did not give money/strength/time etc. to help someone else (though I'm not sure how they determined that).

3. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.
We all know the questions around this one, because Timothy doesn't directly ask for any money there are no financial statements or accountability. I do know though that there are some who "tithe" for trumpeting expenses (not sure who because they won't take money directly from just anyone but Timothy's wife Amy once told me that some do "tithe") and they had also talked about starting up something where those residing in the US could give money to Amy and Timothy to send to the orphanages of those affiliated with the group (we were told we could trust him with the money because God told Timothy if he ever took money for his own use that God would strike him dead)

4. Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.
Of course the end of the world and God's judgment and wrath in the tribulation are how this group fits in this one. I do believe it will happen one day, but this group uses this to put people into a kind of panic to "get ready" and "be a worthy bride". One thing that they also do is make people feel that the only place they can be where they are "safe" is in this group because all churches are apparently evil and all other Christians are deceived, so naturally the only place where you can be safe and get the truth is with them.

5. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.
While we were told we could talk to members who had left or had been kicked out, they were always painted in a bad light. Like "poor so and so they made the wrong choice and now they will have to pay in the tribulation, but we will keep praying for them and we trust God will bring them to repentance in his timing". If a person was kicked out, it was usually done in front of everyone or at the very least the "message the Lord gave them" was shared with everyone in the group. I also have good reason to believe that the leaders are lying to the group members about why I left because I was wholeheartedly committed when I stopped showing up so they couldn't let people believe I left of my own accord or had been shown evidence that this is a cult and had been exited.

6. Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.
I don't know any other former members personally, but I have had conversations while in the group with others who have felt the same feeling that we were always on edge and never sure if we were going to make the wrong move and be "punished" for it by being kicked out or having God be angry at us or at the very least disappointing Him. Also, I know we pretty much all separated from our families and friends and churches (if you didn't you were kicked out) so there are many "patterns" which occurred.

7. There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.
The record is in this blog, Trent separated from his wife because of the group, as had I separated from my family because we were told to. Philly tells about the struggles she has with her spouse as a result of the group and the indoctrination process. The fact that he makes $93,000 and has several houses while he tells the group to give "out of their abundance or lack" and tells the churches that God is angry at them for hoarding money instead of giving it to the poor is also seemingly evidence of financial abuse in a way.

8. Followers feel they can never be "good enough".
As mentioned above, there was a general complex that many of us had that we could somehow screw up and God would be angry at us or we would fail him. This was done in subtle ways so as not to go against scripture in saying you could lose your salvation, but that you could "miss the boat" in the rapture if you didn't do all the right things. I agonized over the smallest mistakes and doubts sometimes for weeks, we were always told to have "nothing doubting" and so if any doubt came up in you're mind you learned to block it out as something evil.

9. The group/leader is always right
While I heard Timothy admit some "stumblings" they were usually kind of said in a way that you admire him anyway, like not wanting to work for God one day but then God turning him around and making him work all night (kind of paints the picture that he is sacrificing so much for us in his service to God). Overall, what the "group" beliefs are or what Timothy says (because it is coming from the Lord) is not disputed, and if there are disputes it always winds up that the person on the other end of the dispute (not the group/leader) is the one that is wrong in everyone's eyes.

10. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing the "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.
Timothy is the only real conduit for the messages received from the Lord. As mentioned previously, even others who have apparently received messages have to have their messages "proofread" before anyone reads them. There is a letter which also says we are to only read God's word (which includes the Bible and the letters) and that is it. We were discouraged from even watching the news or weather towards the end of my time there. Education is worth nothing to the group and "Scholars" and "Theologians" are viewed as evil.

Page 19
http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?6,62059,page=19

LLG: I came across an article which describes some abuses against members which occur in destructive cults, I believe every one of them occur in this cult:

SOME ABUSES OF RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS:-

1. ABUSE OF INDIVIDUALITY
They adopt a "groupness" mentality. They are not permitted to
think for themselves apart from the group and only accept what
they are told.

2. ABUSE OF INTIMACY
Relationships with friends, relatives, spouses, children,
parents etc are broken or seriously hampered.

3. ABUSE OF FINANCES
Pressure to give all you can to the group. In non-communal
groups, members usually live at the lower socio-economic strata,
not because of a lower income level, but because they are always
giving money to the group for some reason.

4. "US VERSUS THEM" MENTALITY
Isolation from the community in general. Anyone and
everything outside the group is seen as "of the devil" or
"unenlightened" etc. Their enemies now include former friends;
the Christian church; governments; education systems; the media
- the world in general. Those who are involved with these in any
way see such involvement as a "means to an end".

5. ABUSE OF TIME AND ENERGY
The group controls and uses almost all the members time and
energy in group activities. They are usually in a constant
state of mental and physical exhaustion.

6. ABUSE OF FREE WILL
They must unquestioning submit to the groups teachings and
directions and their own free will is broken. Their "will"
actually becomes the groups "will" without their realizing it.
This is done either by coercive methods including low protein diets
and lack of sleep, or over a period of time through
intimidation. Both methods make heavy use of "guilt".

I posted a link to the article here if anyone is looking to read more:
http://www.ex-cult.org/General/identifying-a-cult

page 20 Timothy (leader of trumpet of God) could be watching Rick Ross site and doing damage control
http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?6,62059,page=20

wendyjduncan: BTW, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Timothy and his cult following are reading everything that is written on this blog. When my husband and I were posting about our cult, Trinity Foundation, we were aware that they were monitoring the Rick Ross site. It is a way to do damage control. If Timothy knows what his opponents are saying, then he can get another crazy letter from God which amazingly addresses the very thoughts!

I'm sure Timothy's followers are all bemoaning the lack of faith of the people who are writing here. Timothy has probably convinced them that we have somehow put the lives of his wife and children in danger.

Well, here's a message to you, Speedy Timothy Rathbun: you and you alone have put MANY individuals and families in danger!! Financially, emotionally, and spiritually!



Page 20
Talking about mind control

http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?6,62059,page=20
LLG: Philly,
It comes down to mind control, there are many subtle suggestions that are planted in the "flock's" minds about man purposefully or not, decieving people by mis-translation and mis-interpretation in the Bible and other places. Once Timothy has you believing that the letters are the unadulterated word of God, if there is any kind of contradiction the letters will come out on top for the trumpetters. You will hear many of them saying "I don't see any contradiction between the letters and the Bible" that is a suggestion from the letters and internalized by mind control, then there is the mis-translation and mis-interpretation (which there is a whole letter on) which is suggested and then internalized as well. I don't have time right now, but maybe I will post later on some of the techniques of mind control used.

In my recent studies I have come to realize though (and this will likely be refuted by your hubby because he will apply his thought stopping process and not even consider it) that the old Covenent was never intended for us, if you read in Exodus it was given to the Isrealites as a Covenent between them and God, we were not part of that Covenent we were part of the New Covenent so it would be like buying a car from a dealership and saying "well I didn't buy it at that price I bought it under the deal you gave that guy over there!". I pasted from Exodus 19 below which is right before they were given the 10 commandments:

5 Now if you will obey me and keep my covenant, you will be my own special treasure from among all the nations of the earth; for all the earth belongs to me.
6 And you will be to me a kingdom of priests, my holy nation.' Give this message to the Israelites."


frogla,
Your prayers are definitely desired, and thank you for the encouragement from all of you I really do appreciate it.

Page 21
More cult criteria on the trumpet of calling by LLG
http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?6,62059,page=21

LLG: Hi everyone,
Sorry this took so long but I had a lot to put in here and so just going through the memory banks and making sure things are as accurate, as well as anonymous (though not sure I was all that successful) as possible took a while. This is a long post, but a pretty in depth look at "life on the inside". I hope this will shed some light on what it is like and why your "trumpeters" think and act the way they do. My heart truly goes out to them, Trent is a bright, wonderful person and Philly your husband (I'm pretty sure I know who he is) is very sensitive and has such a tender heart for God, there are so many amazing people in this group who are being hurt by this, even though right now they just don't know it.


list of Robert Jay Lifton's 8 Point Model of Thought Reform:

1. ENVIRONMENT CONTROL. Limitation of many/all forms of communication with those outside the group. Books, magazines, letters and visits with friends and family are taboo. "Come out and be separate!"

We went through an entire Sabbath study on "Being Separate" and many times were told we need to "Come out" of the church and "Be separate" from the wicked and unbelievers (which is anyone who did not believe in the Bible and the Letters). ( [www.google.com]) I had reservations about separating completely from my family and so during the beginning of one of the Sabbath studies (the Skype call had been opened early) I asked Timothy about it. He told me "didn't you hear the study before on it?" (a guilt and shame thing) and then told me he believes God does want us to be completely separate from our families (meaning if they weren't "believers" as defined above). After that I sent an email to my whole family (including Aunts, Uncles, Cousins, etc.) to tell them if they couldn't accept the letters I couldn't be around them but told them if they ever wanted to know more about Jesus I would come running to speak with them. I missed family reunions, birthdays and weddings in the interest of "being separate from the things of this world".
We were also told through letters ( [www.google.com]
and [www.google.com] are a couple of examples) and conversations that we should "Let go" of worldly things (both physical and emotional) and not read anything which wasn't the Lord's word in the Bible or the letters, or watch anything "worldly" including news and even the weather channel.
We were also told through the letters that we needed to "Silence the scoffers", scoffers being anyone who criticized Timothy or the letters, by separating from them physically or blocking them (if it was on facebook or something they would be blocked so they could no longer contribute to the conversation threads on the person's facebook page). The reason we were told is so the scoffer does not cause more harm to himself by persecuting God's servant and mocking God. ( [www.google.com]
and [www.google.com] )

2. MYSTICAL MANIPULATION. The potential convert to the group becomes convinced of the higher purpose and special calling of the group through a profound encounter / experience, for example, through an alleged miracle or prophetic word of those in the group. (this is also sometimes called "Planned Spontaneity")

Of course all of the letters fall into this category, the main basis of this group is that Timothy is a "prophet of God in this modern day" and so if you believe the letters are from God than every single time we got one we were on a special kind of "high" feeling as though we were "special chosen and privileged" children of God to have him speak directly to us (even if it was addressed to another member in the group or to society at large it was always "and for those who have ears to hear"). I also received 2 letters directly to me from the Lord which heightened the sense of the Lord speaking into my life through his prophet. They both came after intense "praying and seeking" the Lord, but without realizing it I also kind of was a part of orchestrating the outcome. Both times I involved leaders from the group in my struggles and questions prior to receiving the letters. The first time was a question I had which I sent to Trent and Timothy to see if they could seek understanding from the Lord as well, I never received a direct answer from either of them but during one of the studies during the week I "divinely" got my response in a letter addressed to me "live" in the study even though I hadn't asked the question directly during the study. The letter started off with a "correcting" tone as though the Lord was telling me I should have known the answer already out of the Truth which is how we are to follow the Lord (sorry if that doesn't make sense trying to at least attempt at being anonymous here). Then it went into encouraging me to be forthright with the Truth at all times and in all seasons and otherwise if I didn't I was being a horrible person who didn't have love in me but hate. Of course the overall tone of the letter was in a Fatherly correcting but loving tone so it made me want to please Him all the more and try harder. There was also a part in the letter which was later adopted as part of our "loaded language" and became a huge part of my own "thought stopping process" as will be discussed below. Later the letter was added to the volumes but some of it was changed radically from the original and no longer was even addressed to me nor was the "answer to my question" included, and we were told that when Timothy "reads it over with the Lord" sometimes He has him change some of it in order to more accurately portray what He was telling him. The second was after a very difficult time I had at home, as I was trying to "follow" the letters and try harder, I was doing something that was only "commanded" of the watchmen (leaders) of the group so I could try and be "extra faithful". Doing this caused tension in my life, a BIG amount of tension and though I felt justified in my response to the tension I felt extremely depressed. Taking this back a few steps, I had a very clear dream of the kind I've never had before prior to joining the group when I first began to obey what the letters were revealing to me. This of course confirmed my belief in the letters early on, but it also gave me a mystery which I believed came from God. After making a mistake early on in my time with the group (essentially hiding what I was doing) I was completely repentant and emailed Trent to say I was sorry (even though he likely had no idea in the first place). In that email I mentioned the dream, knowing that others had had dreams interpreted by the Lord through the letters Timothy wrote, because I wanted to know if there was something I could learn from the dream which would help me grow (I was panicked knowing the time was close and I had so far to go before I was likely to be deemed "worthy" of rapture). Trent sent the email off to Timothy and Jayse (another prophet in the group) with the disclaimer to me that it would be interpreted "Lord willing". Less than 24 hours later I received a response from Trent that the Lord had given Jayse a message for me and he had copied part of a conversation between him and Jayse in the body of the email. Jayse said in the email body that the Lord told me that the dream wasn't the focus but then went into how much He loved me. That tidbit made me so excited I could barely keep my feet on the ground. Trent told me that it still needed to be "scribed" which he said meant that Timothy would pray over it and Amy would spell check and format it. It was at least a month and I hadn't heard of my letter, but seeing it as a test in patience I tried to wait and not say anything. I once emailed about it but Timothy told me they had 60 letters they had to go through and so mine was "on the list" and that the Lord had prioritized the list to make it easier on Timothy but I would be receiving it soon enough so I left it alone. Finally when the big tension I spoke about above happened and I was so depressed I couldn't wait any longer, I needed to hear about the Lord's love for me as Jayse mentioned was in the letter. I emailed Timothy and Amy to see if I could just read the "unedited" version I didn't care about spelling mistakes and stuff I just needed to hear the Lord's words to me, I explained the tension I had gone through and was going through to show why it was so important to me. Amy responded and said that Tim prayed and that the Lord said that Tim could work on my letter next. I was so overwhelmed that the Lord would put my letter over what I thought would have to have been more important letters and kind of felt bad that I had said anything. Amy told me that I couldn't read the un-scribed version because Jayse was a "prophet in training" kind of thing and so Timothy needed to read it over with the Lord to make sure it was accurate (paraphrased of course not her exact words). Late on the night before the Sabbath study I got the letter sent to me and then we also read it during the Sabbath study. That letter was a completely different tone than the first letter, it encouraged me and made me feel loved by God as a special daughter, and even eluded that he I would be one of those raptured as his bride and told me to "take this dress and wear it well" which meant that I needed to be holy as a "worthy bride of Christ". The letter didn't interpret the dream but said that later he would interpret my dream through his servant so I would know he had never abandoned me.


3. DEMAND FOR PURITY. An explicit goal of the group is to bring about some kind of change, whether it be on a global, social, or
personal level. "Perfection is possible if one stays with the group and is committed."

There was an emphasis on purity in this group, as mentioned earlier we were to "rid ourselves of the world" in us by refraining from "worldly" television and books, from "worldly" people which were pretty much everyone except the group (even those who believed the Bible but not the letters or beliefs of the group were in a sense "worldly" because they were seen as similar to the Pharisees because they couldn't see "what the Lord is doing" in our generation and were proud and clinging to the "deceit" of the church), and were not to cling to "worldly" goods (which was why some were departed because they didn't give to others).
I remember being pretty much terrified to watch almost anything on TV with my husband and would bury myself in my computer to block out the TV from my vision or hearing (I would listen to MP3s of the letters with my earphones). I couldn't even watch Christian TV because I saw that as deception, though for some reason they did endorse Spongebob as safe but I haven't really been able to figure out why that is. I also remember a time when after reading one of the letters I went out to our deck (early in the morning) and fell to my knees praying and crying for the Lord to "remove the world from me" that I didn't want anything to do with the world, only Him, I felt so ashamed of myself that I was sobbing uncontrollably out there on my knees on my deck. I prayed that the Lord would "purge the dross" in me (meaning to get rid of any impurities) and make me worthy of Him.



4. CULT OF CONFESSION. The unhealthy practice of self disclosure to members in the group. Often in the context of a public gathering in the group, admitting past sins and imperfections, even doubts about the group and critical thoughts about the integrity of the leaders.

The group was very open with each other, we were like family, closer than family and so we shared a lot during the studies and in prayer. Also in Skype conversations in the "off hours" the Skype windows were open 24hrs a day for anyone to come on and talk with whomever else was online (I suspect there were always leaders watching because they always seemed to show up) and the conversations were always there for anyone to view later. We worshiped "YahuShua" (which we were told was the Lord's real name) with a passion I had not seen anywhere else. Many times I came to the group (we called each other family as well, brothers, sisters and friends) with problems I was having at home and told them how I struggled and what I was feeling inside. Once I told them that I felt like I was being unloving when I told my husband I needed to tell my kids that there was no Santa, Easter bunny, Tooth Fairy etc. and he was crying asking me not to destroy their fantasies and ruin the happiness and his favorite season (Christmas), that they were his kids too. Others in the group shared their own struggles with going through the "culture change" around Christmas and the like as well.
Later on in my time there, Trent announced that he had come across these "counseling techniques" to discover your "true self" and wanted to practice so he was asking for volunteers to pair up for him to practice counseling them. I signed up enthusiastically, but since I was still fairly new compared to many of them I hadn't really found any particularly close friends in the group (though I emailed Trent a lot because he brought me into the group and I felt close to him because of that) I asked Trent if he knew of anyone who didn't have a partner but then found someone on my own and off we went. The counseling took place over Skype and there were 2 sessions. The ultimate result of the "counseling" was to categorize yourself into your Primary and Secondary "self" categories of "Thinker", "Feeler", or "Doer" and we were told that was our "true self" which we were given by God. Then we went through and discussed our "worldly self" which we learned through events in our lives which shaped us, and thirdly how we felt and thought about God and his role in our lives in difficult times. In the part of the counseling about "worldly self" we were asked to tell him about some of the most painful memories we have and how we dealt with pain and hurt in our lives. In the end we found out how we acted, interacted and thought about things and why. The thing is, now so did Trent and he recorded the sessions which (and I'll admit I am assuming here) probably were shared with Timothy as well. Now, I have to be honest, I wear my heart on my sleeve and I'm a pretty open book so the counseling sessions probably showed ME more about me than anyone else because the things we found out were probably pretty obvious to anyone else I imagine. Part of what I found out was that I have trouble with feeling accepted by others and often feel as though I am a burden on people so after that Trent continually re-affirmed me by calling me Friend and saying that he loved me (in a brotherly way of course). I felt closer to him after that and felt he really truly cared about me as his sister and I shared even more with him as he taught me and helped me through my struggles and I felt privileged to be under his tutelage.



5. SACRED SCIENCE. The group's perspective is absolutely true and completely adequate to explain EVERYTHING. The doctrine is not subject to amendments or question. ABSOLUTE conformity to the doctrine is required.

The following is a conversation in Skype which took place in one of our studies in August, I removed the names to protect the privacy of those involved (except Timothy because I think it's important to see what he said). It shows a good "listing" of the doctrines this group holds too, and the requirement to be in complete agreement with them. In fact, the title of the subject in the email when the study was sent out to the group included the words "This may be the last study you ever partake of" meaning if you didn't comply with these that you might as well pack your bags and never come back. Shortly after this study we started getting "ultimatums" from the Lord that if you didn't comply with particular doctrines/beliefs you would be "departed from the Lord's table". Also, there were a couple of beliefs which we were specifically told if we did not believe them that we would be left behind for the tribulation in order to be "corrected". The thing that is interesting, is that I read an article written by Trent some time ago, about how this group is not a cult and the premise of the article was that cults tell you what to think and do, and this cult doesn't, well... I'm not so sure about that.


Leader 1: 1) That we ought to keep all 10 commandments: Even the 2nd (No graven images) and 4th (Remembering the Sabbath (7th Day - Saturday)), and keeping God's Holy Days, walking as Christ walked.

The Lord Jesus Himself said:

"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew 5:17-20

Paul said:

"For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." - Romans 8:3-4

And:

"Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with bread without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth." - 1 Corinthians 5:8

Paul speaking to gentiles at the church in Corinth, directed them to keep the feast of unleavened bread, as commanded by God.

John wrote:

"This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus." - Revelation 14:12

And:

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." - 1 John 3:4

**Please don't think that I am saying that we are justified by keeping God's commandments. It is only by authentic faith in the true Lord Jesus Christ and His sacrifice and resurrection from the dead that we are saved, and this leading to works and obedience... For any other kind of faith is dead, not leading to works and obedience.
Leader 2: does anyone still have a problem with this truth?
Leader 2: we should all say amen to it if we agree
Leader 2: ok?
Me: Amen!
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: Amen to the 10 commandments
Flock member: Amen
Leader 1: Amen
Flock member: Amen Lord
Leader 1: 2) That the damned are not granted eternal life/consciousness to abide in torment. The Lake of Fire is the means by which both resurrected body and soul will be destroyed, consumed, devoured, perish, etc... Modern translations of the Scriptures in English have lead to much confusion due to Sheol (OT), and Gehenna and Hades (NT), all being translated "hell", a word foreign to both Hebrew and Greek.

This is all throughout the Scriptures, and VERY FEW of the modern churches of men preach this truth. Rather, they have adopted heathen philosophies of the immortal souls of mankind, apart from Christ. This doctrine is anti-christ and blasphemy on the highest order. Making God a tormentor of His creation, and making Jesus Christ a liar.

**Please let me know if you would like me to send you Bible studies on this topic that the Spirit of God has lead me in making.
Leader 2: do we all 100% agree?
Flock member: (y)
Me: 100%! Amen!
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: Amen!
Flock member: Yes, Amen, I do agree
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: completely amen
Flock member: Tripple Amen
Flock member: Yes, amen
Leader 2: who has a bit of a prob with that?
Flock member: AMEN
Flock member: there was a time when I would have had a problem....not now
Leader 2: good
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: 1. John 4:8: He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
Leader 1: 3) That ANYTHING we give more time to than the Lord, whether in activity or thought, is an idol. We are to have the Lord Jesus/YahuShua as the Foundation, Corner-stone, and Centerpiece of our lives.

"Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him." - 1 John 2:15

"Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God." - James 4:4

"And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lies in wickedness." - 1 John 5:19

"I came to send fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!" - Luke 12:49
Me: Amen, Yes God is Love
Flock member: Amen
Leader 2: amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: amen
Flock member: amen
Flock member: Amen, it is indeed the truth
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: AMEN
Leader 1: PS: I would love it if we could find Letter excerpts for these as well... Maybe not right now
Leader 2: any disagreement?
Jason: I know there is a plethra of them
Flock member: none
Flock member: Nope, Amen
Me: not at all
Leader 2: ok we are going to be unanimous on all these or slow down to help anyone that has a problem with them
Flock member: amen

Leader 1: Gimmie the go ahead when were ready for next posting
Flock member: Amen
Leader 2: k
Leader 2: o k
Leader 2: ready
Flock member: Genesis 5:24: And Enoch >>> walked with God:<<< and he was not; for God took him.


Leader 1: ok
Leader 1: 4) That those whom have fallen asleep/died in Christ are not currently conscious, but await the Lords resurrection at the Last Day (Beginning of the Day of The LORD). The rest of the dead are not again conscious until after the 1,000 years. They will then be judged according to works.

"There shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust." - Acts 24:15

"My Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." - John 6:40

"Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth--those who havedone good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation." - John 5:28-29

"But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished." - Revelation 20:5

"I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books." - Revelation 20:12
Leader 2: ok with this one everyone? That the dead do not haunt consciously ... but sleep in the grave until the first resurrection (or later if unto judgement)???
Flock member: yes, amen and thank you Lord
Flock member: amen
Me: Amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: Yes I agree with this wholeheartedly....
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: agree
Flock member: (nod)
Flock member: Leader 2: but sleep in the grave until the first resurrection (or later if unto judgement)???

<<< why do you have a ???? after this statement.
Flock member: AMEn
Flock member: Amen

Those in Christ sleep until the first resurrection, those not in Christ will sleep until the secound resurrection, which is after the millenum.
Flock member: amen
Leader 1: Also, that those who have died are not alive in heaven right now.
Leader 2: (to the flock member's question above) it was a question whether everyone agreed ... therefore the question mark at the end
Flock member: now I understand, and yes, I agree
Leader 2: right
Leader 2: no hauntings
Leader 2: no playing in the Father's house until the resurrection, right?
Me: what about babies who were killed in the womb Leader 1? I think I read in a letter they go straight to God.. is that meaning heaven?
Flock member: amen , agreed
Leader 1: Yes (to my question)
Flock member: [18:17:33] Me: what about babies who were killed in the womb Leader 1? I think I read in a letter they go straight to God.. is that meaning heaven?

<<< Yes.
Leader 1: and Also innocent children who died
Flock member: Right Leader 2
Me: ok, thanks :)
Leader 1: (State of the innocent)

"Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of God." - Luke 18:16

"And those from the Kingdom, who lived upon the earth for such a short time and remain without blemish, return to Him from whom they came. They need not sleep in death, for the penalty of sin is death. I have found no sin in them." (Letters from God and His Christ, Volume 1 - "To Whom Does the Kingdom of Heaven Belong?")
Leader 2: amen
Leader 1: Ok, next?
Me: amen
Leader 2: next
Flock member: just a question
Flock member: amen
Flock member: Mat 27:52: And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Mat 27:53: And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Flock member: What about these graves in Matthew 27? (KJV)
Leader 1: aha, a great mystery
Leader 2: they are back in their graves
Leader 2: the Lord revealed that to us
Flock member: as is Lazarus
Flock member: ..wasn't it simply a "preview" of things to come..?
Leader 2: they were not "resurrected" ... rather, like Lazarus, they were "resusitated"
Me: neat
Flock member: Ah ok I wondered about that.
Leader 1: And a little boy was also resusitated in the Old Testament by God through Elijah or Elisha
Flock member: amen
Leader 1: next:
Leader 1: 5) That there will be a rapture of the bride before God's wrath is poured out on the earth and the inhabitants thereof. However, very few will be gathered up... Only those whom Christ sees of Himself in... Those who KNOW Him and obey Him, whom have truly made Him their Lord/Master and Savior. *Many churches teach this... However, not all who goto a church will be gathered up... Only those whom Christ truly see's of Himself in.

"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall >ALL< be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." - 1 Corinthians 15:51

"Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to >>escape ALL<< these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." - Luke 21:36

"If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a THIEF, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee." - Revelation 3:3

"Behold, I come as a THIEF. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame." - Revelation 16:15

Leader 2: This is called the "pre-trib rapture" by men ... God calls it "the gathering uP" or "the first harvest" ... do we all agree?
Flock member: amen
Me: Sweet Amen.. looking forward to it :).. God willing
Flock member: Amen.
Flock member: (y) 100%
Flock member: yes , I do , amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: AMEN
Flock member: I AGREE!!! :) I hope to be counted among the ones to go in this!
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: I see the SDA and Jehova witnesses churches fall after the gathering up, because they do not teach that.
Flock member: Whether I go at first or last, I do not care, just as long as I am somewhere in line
Leader 2: ok, but we are all going to agree or slow down to make sure we all do
Leader 1: Asepcts of God's Wrath are being manifested in the earth, as they have been throughout history... But the Day of Wrath, great tribulation will happen after the Rapture.
Flock member: We can slow down.....
Leader 2: (to the flock member who said they didn't care if they were first or last), you should care ... because it breaks the Lord's heart to lock the door
Flock member: I do not want to boast and YES, I do care.
Leader 2: woe to them that do not care ... just saying
Flock member: Revelation 20:4: And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that >>> were beheaded <<< for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Me: I know what you mean.. I feel the same, I know if I have to stay, its because God loves me.. and if i am gathered.. it is because God loves me :)
Flock member: I am willing to go when he chooses. I truly do not want to be left, with the door locked. He knows that.
Flock member: Most of those left will die during that time.
Leader 2: He doesn't want that either ... but He knows it is neccesary
Flock member: [11:23:15 AM] Leader 1: Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame." - Revelation 16:15

<<< amen
Flock member: Amen
Me: Amen
Flock member: [11:25:12 AM] Me: I know what you mean... I feel the same, I know if I have to stay, its because God loves me.. and if i am gathered.. it is because God loves me :)

<<< I want to zip out on the first flight, and I know it is his choosing, I am struggling not to struggle
Flock member: In USA they have build 15000 to 30000 guilotines.
Leader 2: His choice is made already, though
Me: Amen
Flock member: amen
Flock member: I was just going to say that Leader 2.....
Flock member: Amen
Leader 2: so we are waiting to see if our boarding pass gets us aboard
Leader 2: next one?
Me: :)
Leader 1: 6) It is impossible to worship the Father without worshiping the Son. The Son is worthy of praise, honor, and worship! The Father and the Son are one, though manifested in the earth as 2. (This is still a little bit of a brain teaser) :) HalleluYahuShua!

"All will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him." - John 5:23

"Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also." - 1 John 2:23
Flock member: Amen!
Me: Yes, Amen Lord
Flock member: YahuShua HaMashiach is Yahuwah, God Almighty!
Amen
Leader 2: Yes
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: Amen
Leader 2: amen
Flock member: Amen...!
Flock member: yes, amen
Flock member: amen
Flock member: Yahushua is YHWH
Leader 2: we can call them lots of things but "separate" is NOT one of them, amen?
Flock member: [11:28:33 AM] Flock member: : YahuShua HaMashiach is Yahuwah, God Almighty!

<<<
Flock member: amen
Me: Amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: amen
Leader 2: next ... if everyone agrees.
Flock member: 1 God - 2 "people", 1 spirit, we worship not the spirit, we worship through the spirit
Flock member: 1 God, 2 "persons", 3 aspects.
Leader 2: ok
Leader 2: next
Leader 1: 7) We are to be separate from the traditions of men including Christmas, Easter, and Halloween. These holidays are deeply rooted in paganism and stem from traditions and celebrations of false gods since before Christ. However, God has given us 7 Holy Days/Festivals/Feasts we are to remember which have awesome spiritual fulfillment in the Lord Jesus Christ. Passover, Unleavened Bread, and First-Fruits have been fulfilled in Him, Pentecost still is, and the other 3 are yet to be fulfilled. (If you would like more info on this I would be glad to give you some stuff.)

"Do not learn the way of the Gentiles;
Do not be dismayed at the signs of heaven, (winter solstice)
For the Gentiles are dismayed at them.
For the customs of the peoples are futile;
For one cuts a tree from the forest,
The work of the hands of the workman, with the ax.
They decorate it with silver and gold;
They fasten it with nails and hammers
So that it will not topple." - Jeremiah 10:2-4

"Take heed to yourself that you are not ensnared to follow them, after they are destroyed from before you, and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, 'How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do likewise.' You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way; for every abomination to the LORD which He hates they have done to their gods" - Deuteronomy 12:30-31

"He said to them: "You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions!"" - Mark 7:9
Flock member: Amen - He knew before we were to know - evidenced by Jeremiah
Me: Amen! (and thanks for sharing this Leader 1 I'd never seen that in Jeremiah before :))
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: amen, I agree with all the above
Flock member: "New Year" / 31st of December also
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: Amen
Leader 1: (y)
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: (I was pulled away by work but I agree on all 7 points so far).... Amen to all of them
Leader 1: They key in the Deut verse:
Flock member: Amen
Leader 1: " You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way"
Leader 2: Yes
Leader 2: I want to be clear
Leader 2: I love you but this is not the study for you if you are going to celebrate pagan holidays and forsake Gods holidays
Leader 2: Understand?
Leader 2: the internet is big
Flock member: totally,amen
Flock member: Amen!
Leader 2: go find people like you if you are still doing the holidays of men and not God's
Flock member: Throw all abominations away from you.
Me: completely! Amen
Leader 2: I'm serious
Flock member: Yes, I understand, and I agree with the Lord's Words about not celebrating pagan holidays and not forsaking God's holy days
Flock member: Yes Amen
Flock member: it was decided to drop all of those pagan rituals before I even found the letters so yes 100 % sure
Leader 2: ok then
Leader 2: next?
Flock member: i would love to take part in a holyday feast but i dont know much about them
Leader 1: There's some Letters about it Jonathan, and much to learn on-line with the Lord's Spirit helping you, if you are truly hungry for it.

Leader 2: (to the flock member who said they want to take part in holy days) the next one is coming up in September
Leader 2: don't make your goal unrealistic
Leader 2: but attempt full participation
Leader 2: and God will honor your attempts
Flock member: Amen
Leader 1: 8) The Holy Spirit is not a person. Nowhere in Scripture is the Holy Spirit worshiped. Rather, the Spirit is that aspect of God that is the means by which the Lord interacts with us. We do not pray to the Spirit, but through the Spirit. One God, Two Persons, Three Aspects...

4/19/05 - From God the Father - A Letter Given to Timothy, For All Those Who Have Ears to Hear

Where has the Lord God said in His Book, written by His spirit through men, "Give praise and worship unto the Holy Spirit"? The Spirit of God is called holy because I am holy, and all I do and purpose is holy and true. Therefore, give praise and worship to your God and His only Begotten. Only give thanks, not worship, for that part and aspect of My being given unto men, who are saved through grace. They receive My spirit because of their belief and proclamation that Jesus is Lord. Give heed and obey the words of the Spirit, for they are My Word given to men to live by and restore them to righteousness and life. Indeed Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord...one God, three aspects...two beings, the Father and the Son. For even the Son can put His Spirit upon you, and cause it to dwell within you, for as the Father is, so too is the Son. All the power of God moving upon the earth is called My Holy Spirit. It is My will made manifest. Therefore, it is not separate. Rather, it is a manifestation of My presence in men and My will made manifest in the world. How can one pray to that which he prays through? Shall one pray only to the hand of God? Pray directly to your God, in the Son's name, Christ Jesus, and through the Spirit will I hear you, and you, Me. For all My servants in Heaven and upon the earth move, speak, hear and know their God through His Spirit. It is My body in which all live and have life. Know the Spirit...accept My love. The Spirit is a gift given by the Father, from the Father, for your sake. Call it not a person...call it a blessing.
Blessed are those, who have the Spirit of God, for God dwells in them. Amen.

[trumpetcallofgodonline.com]

Flock member: Amen
Me: Amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: Agreed, Amen
Flock member: [18:37:57] Leader 1: One God, Two Persons, Three Aspects...

<<< Amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: amen
Flock member: [18:37:57] Leader 1: Call it not a person...call it a blessing.

<<<
Leader 1: Anyone noticed in the most recent Letters the Lord has been more forthcoming than in pervious Letters of His Oneness?
Flock member: ..so beautiful,...Amen.
Leader 2: yes
Leader 1: "I AM He, and He Is Me", etc...
Leader 1: Awesome
Flock member: yes, He also refers to Himself as the Father and the Savior
Me: yes, thats awesome.. Amen
Leader 2: OK ... do we worship the Holy Spirit?
Me: no
Flock member: No
Flock member: No we don't
Flock member: no
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: no
Leader 2: But we DO worship God ... by H

LLG: Leader 2: But we DO worship God ... by His two names which are ______ and _________
Flock member: Yahuwah , YahuShua
Flock member: Yahuwah and YahuShua
Flock member: The Son or the Father through the Son.
Me: The Father and the Son, Jesus, YahuShua
Flock member: YahuShua and Yahuwah
Flock member: Yahuwah & YahuShua
Leader 2: ok
Leader 2: ready for next?
Me: (y)
Flock member: Ready
Leader 1: k
Leader 1: 9) Water Baptism is NOT required for the forgiveness of sins, and salvation. Only the Blood of the Lamb can forgive sins... Baptism, by water, was given to men as a solidification of one's commitment to God, in Christ's name, and fellowship with one to the other to build Christ's church and make it of one body.

[trumpetcallofgodonline.com]

[trumpetcallofgodonline.com]'s_Right_Hand...Hear_the_Word_of_the_Lord
Flock member: Aaaaamen
Flock member: AMEN
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: Amen
Me: Amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: AMEN
Leader 1: (to one of the flock members), was this a doctrine the Lord had to de-teach you?
Flock member: Else would water baptisem be equal for salvation with the sacrifica of Jesus.
Flock member: Amen, by all means...
Leader 2: k
Flock member: I think yes.
Leader 1: Unfortunately, many of the churches whom are closer to the truth on the resurrections, eternal judgement, etc... teach that all must be baptized in water, by men, in order to be saved... :(
Leader 1: I'm happy He did that for you, many stumble over this
Flock member: ...remember the thief on the cross...
Flock member: Well I got baptised into water, because I felt it necessary.
Flock member: [18:44:48] Flock member: ...remember the thief on the cross...

<<< Yes absolutly.
Flock member: amen
Me: We do it out of obedience to the Lord.. but not because it will save us
Flock member: One of my church members wept when I got baptised.
Leader 2: (y)
Flock member: what scripture was fulfilled by the Lord's baptism by John?
Leader 1: It can be a beautiful thing, and was and probably is, accompanied by the infilling of the Spirit, not because of the ritual, but because of the condition of the heart of the one being baptized
Me: Amen Lord
Leader 2: yes
Flock member: His baptism fulfilled all righteousness
Leader 2: lets move on ... we have more stuff on the list

Flock member: I think of those who never had the chance to become baptised, they would have no salvation if it were true. Prisoners for example.
Me: That wouldn't be very loving of our Lord, now would it?... and He IS Love
Leader 1: ok
Leader 1: 10) God does still send prophets, though there are very few who are authentic. As in the days of old, and according to the Lord Jesus teachings, the true prophets of God are despised and rejected by common religious authority. Likewise, both Christ and the prophets of old were hated of men, especially by those of high position within the religious establishment. There are many Scriptures that testify to the reality that there were true prophets after the Lord's ascension, and that there will be in the last days.

"And he gave some, apostles; and some, >>prophets<<; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers..." - Ephesians 4:11

"If any man think himself to be >>a prophet<<, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord." - 1 Corinthians 14:37

"Behold, >>I send unto you prophets<<, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city." - Matthew 23:34

"It shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and >>your sons and your daughters shall prophesy<<, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions..." - Joel 2:28
Leader 2: amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: amen
Me: Amen
Leader 2: can anyone have a true claim to being a prophet and teach eternal torment?
Flock member: i agree, Amen
Flock member: Amen

Leader 2: if not why not?
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: no
Flock member: that is not from the Lord , eternal torment
Me: no not at all... because it is TOTALLY against God's word
Flock member: Ac:2:16: But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Ac:2:17: And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Ac:2:18: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and >>> they shall prophesy:<<<
Flock member: No, you can't teach eternal torment....and be a prophet
Flock member: the action word you are using is, "true", so no - they can not be a true prophet and teach eternal torment
Flock member: Amos 3:7: Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
Leader 2: Lets keep that in mind for the commandments, and for holidays and all the other things ... no true prophet could be contrary to God's truth ... ignorant .. .perhaps ... but contrary ... NO.
Flock member: amen
Flock member: ..cannot POSSIBLY exist with The Lord's Perfect love...
Me: amen
Flock member: Leader 2, this throws out 98.5 of "prophets"
Flock member: Amen
Me: Amen .. yes it does
Leader 2: remember that at the beginning Timothy was ignorant of many things but the prophecy stands because it was not contrary to revealed Truth.
Flock member: Is the return of YahuSHua not important enough to be proclaimed by prophets?
I think IT IS.
Leader 2: so what is written stays written and what the Lord has spoken ... stands!
Flock member: the prophet may be ignorant but not the message delivered by the prophet
Flock member: The Lord has grown Timothy from a twig to a mighty Oak!
Flock member: Amen
Leader 2: ok
Leader 2: next
Leader 1: 11) Babies are NOT sinners. Sin is the transgression of the law, and/or transgression of the conscience which is God given. We are not born sinners. However, being brought up in a world of sin, living in flesh, all eventually sin and fall short of the glory of God, save those innocent children and babies whom pass-on, living few years in the earth. These need not sleep in death. Neither do they need to be resurrected. They go to be with the Lord immediately.

[trumpetcallofgodonline.com]

[trumpetcallofgodonline.com]

Flock member: Amen, born into sin and not of sin
Flock member: amen
Flock member: Amen
Me: Amen (thats the one! :))
Leader 2: this is contrary to mans' doctrine called "original sin" ... which is a falsehood
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: Amen....
Flock member: Amen
Leader 2: we all agree then?
Flock member: babies are full of Jesus (sun) there spotless and they shine bright
Flock member: What the LORD says stands.
Flock member: yes
Flock member: I agree....I had a bit of a hard time "grasping" this....but I think the Lord has helped open my heart and eyes to see it
Me: yes.. and that is why they Christen babies. I totally agree, there is no "Original sin"
Flock member: Yes indeed
Flock member: Yes I do.
Leader 2: k
Leader 2: next
Leader 1: That's it
Leader 2: alright
Leader 2: what we could add is this
Leader 2: *12) Read and share God's word ...
Leader 2: amen?
Flock member: Amen ,
Me: Amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: Yes Amen!!
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: amen
Leader 1: Churches do that with the Bible, but obviously not with the Letters
Flock member: Amen
Leader 2: *13) vacate man's churches (services conducted in buildings that are made by man's hands ... for the establishment of another of man's chruches)
Flock member: Bible + Letters = Gods word spoken to all of us.
Me: Although Leader 1.. you will find in Churches it isn't really focused on. It is actually dampened in case you "offend" someone
Flock member: Leader 2, that should definately be on the list

Me: Yes.. Amen to vacate churches of men
Flock member: Yes
Leader 2: so we all went quiet on 13?
Leader 1: "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, and say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets." - Matt 23:29-31
Me: nope.. I am in full agreeance on #13
Flock member: Nay, continuing to Trumpet, and read
Flock member: My mother has accepted the Letters :)
Flock member: I don't attend any church of men and have no desire to
Flock member: Vacate man's churches...Amen
Flock member: Leader 2, I was thinking back when he had us do all the faxing.....It is only "in line" with that action that he now calls us all to abandon all church gatherings.
Leader 1: 13) One must repent of their sins and be sanctified through the working of the spirit to inherit the Kingdom of heaven
Me: PTL(means Praise the Lord) Flock member who's mother now accepts the Letters
Flock member: (to flock member who's mother now accepts the Letters), that is AWESOME - ALL PRAISE AND GLORY TO HIM
Leader 2: Leader 1, 13 is taken
Flock member: I gave her some Letters and she said the truth is written in them.
Flock member: do not go to any church built by human hands, i fellowship with fellow believers in the Letters and the Word of God
Flock member: to go along with #13

Thus declares The Lord: All those, who depart the churches of men, shall come and sit at My table. And those, who remain unmoving, holding fast to their laurels because of their pride, shall receive the recompense of their error... Their fate shall be even as the house, in which they have placed all their trust... For I am The Lord alone, and I will not share My glory, nor will any corrupt house stand, though My name be written there.
[trumpetcallofgodonline.com]

Flock member: I agree with thirteen Leader 2, for sure!!
Leader 2: WHEN did God tell us to vacate the churches of men? It was NOT last week
Me: no.. a long time ago
Flock member: He never told us to go
Me: before I started attending this study and reading the letters
Flock member: long long ago, in the beginning of the Letters
Flock member: No, I was referring to the activity that he had us do - what 10 months ago?
Flock member: immediatly
Leader 1: Oh... 14 then
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: What the LORD says stands.
Leader 2: In 2007 (I remember it like it was yesterday) the Lord told the churches to sell all their belongings and tear down their walls ... which church built by human hands was exempt?
Flock member: No church is exempt
Flock member: He said He was the church, not a building
Flock member: I think no chruch
Flock member: He is the church,
Leader 2: right ... none were exempt

Leader 2: how many churches rebelled ?
Flock member: I have a question...
Flock member: All?
Me: All churches of men rebelled
Flock member: all I think....
Flock member: All
Leader 2: what if then never heard?
Flock member: the churches of men
Me: They are still walking contrary to God and His truth

Leader 2: I'll speak plainly ... hearing or not is irrelevant ... if they harkened to the Lord they are now in rebellion ... and if they harkened not .. they are in rebellion for not listening ... all are in rebellion ... PERIOD
Flock member: amen
Me: amen
Leader 2: unless they sold everything ... gave it to the poor and tore down their building
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: none are in rebellion - they still harken to their own doctrine - they may have heard, and they are not in agreement with what the Lord said, so they are keeping their doctrine. They are not rebelling against the Lies of their false doctrine (of men)

Leader 2: did you mean all are in rebellion?
Flock member: All are in rebellion
Flock member: romans 3: 10As it is written:

"There is no one righteous, not even one;

11there is no one who understands,

no one who seeks God.

12All have turned away,

they have together become worthless;

there is no one who does good,

not even one."
Flock member: All are in rebellion,just a slow typer,
Flock member: Amen Jayse, me for sure
Leader 1: There is a great deception that repentance from ALL dead works is not required by the Lord...
Leader 1: This needs to be added as well
Leader 1: The Lord requires us to repent of ALL dead works... from lust of the flesh/wandering of the eyes, to smoking cigarettes (just a side note here, in our counseling meeting the other person in the session spoke about her difficulty with giving up smoking... but not with this Leader)
Flock member: yes
Me: Amen.. with the Lord's help
Leader 2: I'll speak plainly again. If you fancy going to man's churches ... the internet is a big place and you need to find some other place therein to fellowship. This is NOT the place for you ... it is a bad fit ... and moreso it is now required that you vacate this fellowship and go and be with your church instead
Flock member: The LORD can do things you can not do.
Me: Amen
Leader 1: Amen
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: Amen...
Flock member: Amen
Flock member: : Amen
Flock member: Amen Leader 2
Leader 2: And Yes ... 14 ) repentance from dead works is another unmitigated truth
Leader 2: does anyone have a problem with 14?
Flock member: no
Flock member: no
Flock member: no problem with it
Flock member: no
Flock member: no
Timothy: I would add a sub-requirement to that repentance
Flock member: no
Leader 2: ok
Me: no problem with #14
Flock member: (sorry I was late, are the verses numbered?)
Flock member: It's easy to say it but harder to really do it...
Flock member: somewhere deep inside, I must have a problem - been thinking of stopping, just have not committed to it.
Timothy: The Lord has requirements for that requirement ;)
Leader 2: He does not require perfecction ... but a sincere striving to obey
Flock member: Dead works are hobbies or vain religios doings?
Flock member: ...Amen..
Flock member: i don't have a problem with it but I do have a problem with smoking
Me: Amen Leader 2
Flock member: Hobbies (ninja emoticon)
Flock member: [12:09:31 PM] Flock member: somewhere deep inside, I must have a problem - been thinking of stopping, just have not committed to it.

<<< the reason I say I must have a problem with it is that I am still smoking
Leader 2: if you have a problem with smoking that is fine ... if you don't ahve a problem with it and enjoy it and fight for your right to continue in it ... than we have a problem with 14
Leader 2: Tim ... what are the requirements for 14
Timothy: One must repent with sincere remorse in their heart, then also sincerely desire to turn from that dead work seeking the Lord's strength to do so... the Lord requires us to come to Him in sincerity and truth with "empty bags"
Flock member: (to flock member with problems quitting smoking) pray to the LORD for help HE CAN HELP you in this case, believe me for He helped me in another case where I couldn´t help myself.
Flock member: amen Lord, and thank you Timothy
Flock member: i used to smoke, thankyou YahuShua
Me: Amen Lord
Leader 2: can we fool God?
Flock member: no
Me: no
Leader 1: Me too, a pack of cloves/day
Flock member: : no
Flock member: No way
Flock member: : no
Flock member: and the truth is, I have stopped before, that is why I am just being honest - I know he knows
Flock member: This world is full of temptations and possibilities to disobey God : (
Leader 2: I have my own besetting sins
Me: He is helping me quit caffine :)
Timothy: see this Letter for more-> [trumpetcallofgodonline.com]

Leader 1: What if we have the attitude of, this is who I am, and I will be like this forever... Is that honorable in God's sight?
Flock member: no
Leader 2: right
Me: no not at all
Flock member: no
Leader 2: if our sin is our friend ... well, that is the problem with 14 ... if you sin is your enemy and your spirit wars with it ... then 14 is not the problem
Flock member: is caffine bad?
Flock member: coffee? Yes
Me: well.. in my case. I was getting headaches when I didn't have it so I knew I was too dependent on it
Leader 2: if it is revealed as bad for you ... than depart from it and harden not your heart
Timothy: ... For the Truth, when it is established in you, must destroy that in you which is not of the Truth and is a lie...and so the battle rages. ...

~ [www.trumpetcallofgodonline.com]




6. LOADED LANGUAGE. A new vocabulary emerges within the context of the group. Group members "think" within the very abstract and narrow parameters of the group's doctrine. The terminology sufficiently stops members from thinking critically by reinforcing a "black and white" mentality. Loaded terms and clichés prejudice thinking.

It will be difficult to really put every part of the loaded language but I will give some of the big examples below:

Banquet = the studies where the Lord would let us "feast" on His word. It was considered an absolute privilege to be involved in these banquets.
The Lord's Table = Reference to the banquet as the place where members meet to fellowship with other believers and the Lord himself.
The Lord's little flock = The elite, small circle group which consisted of the members in the studies.
Trust with Abandonment = To give 100% of yourself for God, no matter what happens inside or outside of you trust completely. ** this one was used a lot in my thought stopping process, any time there were any doubts or if someone was doing something to me or against me which was hurtful or making me wonder if it was worth it, etc.
Obey without expectation = To be self-sacrificial in your obedience, don't expect anything in return (even to be worthy of rapture), but just obey.
Love without condition = No matter how hard something is, the Lord gave up everything for us and so there should be no conditions in our love for Him, we need to do all things out of Love for the Lord (speak about Him and trumpet, obey the letters etc.)
Trumpet His word / Trumpeting = Telling others about the letters to spread them as far and wide as possible. (Many used internet media such as facebook, youtube, blogs etc. and others also handed out cards in person, I did both)
FROGLA = Fresh Revelation of God's Love and Acceptance, when someone said they had a "FROGLA" it meant they had a revelation from the Lord.
Nothing doubting = To have nothing doubting meant that you had no doubts about the letters or the Lord's work in our day. That you would obey at the drop of a hat because you had no doubts at all.
Man's doctrine = Man's doctrine or Man-made church was the mainstream churches and their doctrine which consisted mainly of grace and "forsakes" or "desecrates" the law. There were many letters about man's doctrine and Trent was even given a letter to tell him to "stop teaching Grace vs the Law and instead teach Grace AND the Law".
Wheat vs. the Chaff and immature wheat = This was "us" vs. "them", we were the wheat being bundled and prepared for "harvest" (which is the rapture) when we would be taken into "the Lord's barn for seven days". The chaff were those who were unbelievers, the ones who would suffer the tribulation and would still not turn to the Lord, eventually being destroyed in the eternal fire (not tortured but destroyed in it). The immature wheat were believers in the Lord Jesus who hadn't accepted the truth about the letters and the "truths" in them, they would need to go through the trials of fire in the tribulation but would then turn to the Lord and be martyred and taken to the Lord's bosom for healing and be with the Lord then for eternity.

Like I said there are many more, but the above are just some examples.


7. DOCTRINE OVER PERSON. Pre-group experience and group experience are narrowly and decisively interpreted through the absolute doctrine, even when experience contradicts the doctrine.

One example of this that I can recall is this, I used to love going to church ... I loved going to church from the time I was in high-school, as soon as I could drive I began to go regularly. When I came into this group though, I changed that point of view because of the doctrine of church being a deceitful place that was based on evil foundations meant to keep people from the Lord and His ways. I emphasized the "bad" things which I experienced out of the frailties of human nature and ignored the "good" things which church allowed in my life. When I told stories about my (at that time former) church I painted stories of people who were trying to make me disobey the Lord and deceive me into following the ways of the world. I changed my view of my pastor who I always regarded before as someone I could trust and learn from, to someone who was prideful and deceptive and "high-minded" (meaning he thought he knew better because of his "scholarly education" and "theology"). I even changed my view of some of my best friends who were attending that church; I saw them as people who were blinded to the truth and stubborn in following the deceptions from the church instead of people who loved the Lord and were seeking to follow Him. I also changed my view of my family, instead of the loving and caring environment that I was raised in I instead saw them as stubborn and haughty, high on themselves and the world.


8. DISPENSING OF EXISTENCE. Salvation is possible only in the group. Those who leave the group are doomed.
We felt extremely distraught over those who left or were kicked out of the group because we believed that they had "made the wrong choices" and were now going to suffer in the tribulation. If they trusted the Lord as their savior we believed they would still spend eternity with the Lord, but they would first have to be put through the trials of fire in the tribulation so they could be broken and humbled coming before the Lord in repentance. I have pasted some letters which were given to those who were "departed from the Lord's table" below:
[trumpetcallofgodonline.com]
[trumpetcallofgodonline.com] (this one the member may have voluntarily left)

This is part of a conversation where we got a "live" letter for someone who chose not to follow one of the doctrines (not sure it ever made it into the volumes or not:
11:54:31 Departed flock member: Hello everyone,
11:54:47 Departed flock member: I jus want to say goodbey...
11:55:08 Departed flock member: I have been tested, and I have failed.
11:55:46 Timothy: The Lord is saying...

"By 300 was My glory revealed, even as those 300 beheld My glory according to My will. Yet of that which was required of the children of Israel, only two of the first multitude entered, even the lampstand which I had set over them did not enter, remaining that example to the people according to that which the Lord requires, even unto death, even according to that much more which is required of those who lead the flock. Yet his reward was met, for though he died, he was also taken... for his service is not yet concluded.
11:56:19 Departed flock member: I had to make a decession, between leaving the church included my children an wife..
11:57:04 Departed flock member: or live alone, with nothing left...


11:57:55 Departed flock member: I have chosen for my children and marige, so this is the last study.



11:58:29 Leader 1: We pray well for you.
11:58:35 Timothy: You have choosen poorly My son... by which I you have also grieved Me....
11:58:42 Timothy: therefore depart....
11:58:48 Flock member: (to the departed flock member), I too was faced with a choice, I abandoned my relationship with my husband - for the Lord revealed to me that the truth was not in him. It hurts. And all men will fail you.
11:58:50 Departed flock member: And by this choice I have also chosen to die for Him I guess, and this I will do.
11:59:00 Leader 2: Well, I am glad you are off the fence but I am not pleased that you took the decision to break the Lord's heart in the matter. ... even so , amen.
11:59:03 Timothy: for you shall serve Me in the Day... says The Lord
11:59:29 Timothy: yet not as those I am sending, but as one who loves Me...
11:59:45 Timothy: as one who choose his life in this world...
12:00:21 Timothy: therefore you will loose it in the Day as one who has lost it and w
12:01:03 Timothy: on My account
12:01:19 Timothy: testifying...
12:01:39 Timothy: even with your last breath to the Greastest of All Loves
12:01:44 Timothy: I am The Lord
12:02:23 Leader 2: ;(
12:02:35 Flock member: Amen
12:02:35 Flock member: ;(
12:02:40 Flock member: ;(
12:02:41 Timothy: *chose
**lose
12:02:59 Me: Amen Lord, even so .. Amen
12:03:03 Flock member: my face is a frownie face, my heart aches for you, and I know how hard choices can be
12:03:04 Flock member: Amen, Father, thank you, and ruud, we love you, and God is still with you,
12:03:21 Flock member: wow, Amen.
12:03:26 Flock member: brother, we love you
12:03:29 Flock member: ohhhhh LORD... You are Mighty To Save!!!!!!!
12:03:33 Timothy: Behold even I have spoken it before the small of My flock and so shall it be
12:03:35 Flock member: even so, Amen Lord
12:03:38 Departed flock member: My choice can not been undone anymore?
12:04:15 Timothy: save all these departing turn back again.... and return to Me... even Me...
12:04:28 Timothy: who is and shall be their first love
12:04:45 Timothy: I am The Lord
12:05:37 Flock member: Oh, Lord, I love you so much. I am so besot with grief.
12:05:38 Me: oh Lord, I love You.
12:05:41 Timothy: Think not that I have not beheld your hearts....
12:05:59 Timothy: for that which remains lacking among you shall be purged
12:06:09 Me: Thank you Lord
12:06:19 Flock member: and, YOU are worth all the lose of things of this world. You alone are worthy oh righteous One of Israel. I love you. So much.
12:06:27 Flock member: Oh Lord Cause Them To Repent And Humble Themsevles greatly before Your Face ,I cry For them
12:06:29 ~Flock member: thank You Lord.....i do love You Father
12:06:54 Timothy: and those of you who remain on your own part, shall be removed from My table
12:07:00 Timothy: I am The Lord
12:07:02 Me: Purge the dross in me Lord, I Love you
12:07:16 Flock member: amen Lord
12:07:21 Timothy: for I have set many things before you.... even from the beginning
12:07:31 Timothy: yet few have descerned
12:07:34 Flock member: amen Father, thank you. I love you soooooo much.
12:09:10 Timothy: I have sent many to you... yet few have lending a hand, and few among you have spoken on My behalf... and to the sorrow of My heart, few have been My hands and My feet by which those I sent were to be healed
12:09:33 Timothy: My servant Trent has spoken and taught you well....
12:09:47 Timothy: yet who among you has discerned My intention?
12:10:02 Flock member: I LOve You Sooo Much Lord You ARE Mine Forever My First LOve I Kiss You with The Kisses Of my Lips ThankYOU Lord for ALL Your Blessengs I embrace All Of them I LOVE YOU LORD
12:10:32 Timothy: *lended
12:11:07 Timothy: for the greastest works among you, reveal little concerning your trusts
12:11:51 Timothy: for that commanded which is obvious is known by all and performed
12:11:53 Departed flock member: This does not mean that I don't believe in the truth of the Letters, these are the truth absolute, so I will continue to pray for you all! Keep the faith and choose better then I did. I am not worthy,I have failed and this is what I have to pay for... Bey ;(;(;( Lord I love you!!!
12:12:58 Timothy: Even now My children remain as martha... concerned over many things...
12:13:19 Me: oh Lord
12:13:51 Flock member: True Love Is Leaving ALL to Follow Him
12:13:56 Timothy: unable to be still at My feet to listen.... behold even now... in your minds I hear a multitude of noise... leading to confusion...
12:14:12 Timothy: BE STILL!
12:14:17 Timothy: in heart and in mind
12:14:32 Timothy: in person and in speech
12:15:13 Timothy: beloved can one fail when sitting at My feet?
12:15:33 Timothy: can one fail when putting Me first?!
12:16:04 Timothy: can one lead another, except they walk in My footsteps?
12:17:01 Timothy: By example shall you lead your beloved, the example of which I am!
12:17:28 Timothy: Can one lead another to Me by departing My table?!
12:19:08 Timothy: it is the humble still servant who sits at My table, quietly beaconing to all others, that they should come and sit next to them, who shall receive his reward
12:20:57 Timothy: yet I tell you... does one sit at My table forever... or is much more required of a servant such as this?
12:21:17 Timothy: are not My gifts to be shared?
12:22:36 Timothy: what of the servant who refuses to wash the feet of another, on account of having never seen their face?
12:23:28 Timothy: therefore beloved you must ask yourselves what is your reasonable service in The Lord?...
12:24:42 Timothy: and what shall I do with those who proclaim their love for Me daily, yet have refuse to give?
12:26:23 Timothy: ... those who have not endevoured by any means... whether great or small (for it makes no difference in My eyes) to help even every single servant i have sent to them?
12:27:13 Timothy: Is knowledge required to obey The Lord?!
12:27:29 Timothy: where is your trust?
12:28:02 Timothy: and if you trust where are My works wrought in you?
12:28:16 Timothy: Do you really love Me?
12:29:45 Timothy: and if you love Me... why have you forsaken Me?... leaving Me naked and hungry....sick and in prison...
12:30:58 Timothy: is your charity, built upon knowledge which is according to an end of which you have decided?!
12:32:28 Timothy: Does it matter at all in My eyes, whether one gives to another in this manner or that... or in by amount or that?...
12:33:47 Timothy: I care not about the action and its perceived glory in the eyes of men
12:34:26 Timothy: I care about that which you have done to Me according to that which reveals your hearts
12:34:39 Timothy: have you not read?
12:34:54 Timothy: "Faith without works is dead"
12:36:45 Timothy: Yet some among you replace your works with empty words and vain excuses, which only serve to expose you, and a faith which suffers on your own account... yet you blame others... even to your unbelieving spouces and the world
12:37:29 Timothy: what part does and unbeliever have with Me?
12:37:40 Timothy: and what is the world to Me?!...
12:37:49 Timothy: It is My footstool!!
12:40:52 Timothy: what concern is it of yours whether another servant gives in this manner or that manner?... concern NOT yourselves with other servants of The Master
12:41:36 Timothy: Concerns yourselves with Me!
12:44:23 Timothy: What is greater ... one who gives of his time, money, possessions, and strength according to the multitude by which I have blessed him; or the one who gives from his lack?
12:44:48 Timothy: what of the servant who tithes of all they have?
12:45:33 Timothy: Therefore thus says The Lord your God and Savior:
12:48:51 Timothy: All those among you who have to date withheld from the Lord, whether out of your lack or abundance... having not tithed, either directly or through this ministry, which I have set up... having withheld in any manner by which I have taught you, whether of time, money, possessions, or of your body... depart from My table.
12:49:52 Timothy: ... for you faith is revealed by that which remains lacking... and by that which remains undone is it made plain
12:50:13 Timothy: I am The Lord
12:50:21 Timothy: and I shall purge!
12:50:33 Timothy: Even I will refine My people
12:50:42 Timothy: and burn away the dross!
12:51:05 Timothy: For I am come to gather and that which is required will be made plain....
12:51:23 Timothy: for by no other means shall I finish you.
12:52:01 Timothy: Go... yet never forget I am He who searches the hearts and minds....
12:52:45 Timothy: yes, I am He, who has died and and is risen! Amen....
12:53:19 Timothy: I am He, beloved.... I am He who corrects and disciplines as many as I love.
12:53:44 Timothy: says The Lord.

There was also one more which was sent via email to the ones being "departed because they didn't give their money/time/strength etc.
[trumpetcallofgodonline.com] (this one must have been after I left but found it during my hunt for the others)

rrmoderator: frogla:

See http://www.rickross.com/brainwashing.html

Quite a few good articles about brainwashing within this subsection.

Here are the two best articles:

http://www.rickross.com/reference/brainwashing/brainwashing19.html

http://www.rickross.com/reference/brainwashing/brainwashing8.html

The following chart makes disntinctions between various forms of persuasion.

See http://www.rickross.com/reference/cults_in_our_midst/cults_in_our_midst2.html

And this article examines manipulative people and the techniques they often use to confuse and control people.

See http://www.rickross.com/reference/brainwashing/brainwashing11.html

I hope this is helpful.

LLG: We were all told we needed to either leave the church altogether, or never attend another study with the group. It was an ultimatum, the member in that thread had decided to not leave church because it would reek havoc with his family and his wife. He said he still believed in the letters, but didn't want to leave the church because of what it would do in his family. You saw the result though.. and so did all of us in the group, kind of a good object lesson no?

LLG: I'm not sure if Amy or Trent are really second in command, I know Amy and Tim both work closely on the letters but then Trent is also "the teacher". There are also other leaders too, but they all go to Timothy for everything and defer to what he says in everything. I also found out that there were no more letters coming, this is just a thought but I'm wondering if they just mean "published" letters and they are still getting letters they just arn't in the book... not sure. As for why its called a "flock" its referring to them as "the Lord's little flock" in reference to them as sheep (his special sheep). I can't speak for others and how devoted they are, but I would imagine that most if not all who are in the group are likely as devoted as I was, so its possible they feel the same as I did with regards to thier own lives and children etc. I don't want to be a fear mongor though, I'm not saying anything will happen or there will be any catalyst which will cause physical harm, I just know I was EXTREMELY devoted and I imagine most in this group are the same. I am glad the information I can provide is helping those on this forum and anyone who reads it (I also found that this forum is in the first page of the google search which is I think is awesome, I think thats actually how my parents came to know about it in the first place), it is in fact very theraputic for me though, its nice to allow the bad experience I had be used for the good of others. I heard this today on a radio brodcast "Even when I'm doing something stupid, God is doing something smart", and I agree, its all in His hands :-) Thank you for the opportunity to share with you.

Freeyomind: New post from Trent against Rick Ross:
http://mytrumpet.posterous.com/rick-ross-the-portrait-of-a-con-artist
I dont have the time to read that... but perhaps somebody is interested in it

Cults.Kill_Jesus.Saves: This is a very dangerous cult. I would know. I was once involved. Timothy told me I had to leave my family and friends or ELSE! They manipulated me and hurt me Spiritually and Emotionally and when I needed them the most, they threw me out to the dogs.

rrmoderator: cultaware:

The document Trent posted online was originated through the Church of Scientology.

I have had a public response to this document and others like it posted about me by Scientology and other "cult" groups for quite a few years.

See http://www.rickross.com/reference/scientology/Scien47.html

Scientology and other groups called "cults" often attempt to shift attention from what they are doing to almost anything in an apparent effort to distract people.

For those who don't know much about Scientology see http://www.rickross.com/groups/scientology.html

It's interesting that Trent and Timothy would align themselves in this way with Scientology, which is antithetical to Christianity.

The real issue is this--is Trumpet Call a "cult"?

And does Timothy hurt people through Trumpet call?

In my opinion the answer to both these questions is emphatically yes.

And I have been qualified and accepted as an expert witness to express my opinion about cults through court proceedings in 13 states, including US Federal Court through what is called a "Daubert hearing."

See http://www.rickross.com/witness.html

Needless to say that in many of these court proceedings the other side wasn't happy and urged the court not to accept me as an expert. And the Scientology material Trent has posted was often used in an attempt to discredit me.

However, at no time have I ever failed to qualified and accepted in any court proceeding as a cult expert.

I have seen many groups like Trumpet Call over the years.

Again, in my opinion the group is a destructive cult.

Truthbetold: I have phots of these guys.. I am told that not jsut timothy buy Trent, Jayse, and at least two others tell theoir members that they are of prophets from the 144,000. If you saw the photos you find i hard to belive that a bunch of over weight white guys and a few women were higher than Elisha as they seem to believe. I think it would be a great idea to stare a FB page and share some truth that will be the best way to expose them. I am a born again beliver and when i read the letters I belived them.. but the more i raed made me want to "talk" to one of them and i prayed over this. They have over 10,000 members all over the world and communicate via skype. 4 time aweek withte men and 3 times for the women. I told one of the members I belived this was a cult an pointed him to your website. My hear breaks for soem of them, they are completely brainwashed as Timothy and Trent have twisted the gospel to make them all belive that if they do not belive they are going to hell. I would like to find others who care enought to whitness to them via facebook and pray for them and help the Lord show them the ruth. I need some hardcore envangleists who are grounded in the scriptures. Any volunteers? Many of these members love God and are seeking the truth. www.gracehead .com has a prediciton for the rapture as september 2009.. guess you forgot to update it huh, Trent?

Cultaware: RR I respect you and all you do to help people involved in abusive groups. I agree with your description of Trumpet Call. Some of them are referring to themselves now as simply an "online reading group". They seem to be afraid of publicity which is a warning sign to me as is mug-slinging which they don't seem to have a problem with.

LLG: frogla,

The first exposure I got to this cult was through a video on youtube. I watched the video and was intrigued, so I went to the site and began to read the letters. At first I wasn't 100% convinced but was curious ("what if this guy really is a prophet? that would be awesome.") I found that Timothy didn't have any personal information on the site and that intriqued me further, it seemed very humble to me that he didn't want to "toot his own horn", it was also kind of mysterious. Because he didn't want any money, that again made me think that much more that he was a prophet, it seems like something that a prophet of God would do and I couldn't see any other reason someone would do that for free. if not commanded by God. I also was getting answers that seemed to make sense with regards to some of the questions I had had prior to finding this group, like Sabbath keeping and feasts etc. I had always wondered about them but hadn't recieved answers that really satisfied me, the letters gave me those answers. I only began practicing Sabath and feasts after I joined the group (I haven't really since shortly after I left it), when I did start observing Sabbath I started having "miraculous" things happen that confirmed for me I was going in the right direction. On our first Sabbath after we prayed, I and my daughter suddenly smelled something fill our house and I was sure it was insence, it made me think of the part in the Bible that talks about the prayers of God's people being like insence and God being pleased at the aroma (something like that). Later that week I had a dream that showed me changing into a dress in a hurry and several scenes of evil spirits that I was speaking truth too making each one in turn go away, and in one of the scenes the evil spirit told me I was wearing "the pretty dress and speaking his name" and that is why they didn't like me. Because of those two events, I was convinced that the letters were from God. (Later I found out that these kind of things can happen if a person is in a "trance-like" state from a hightened emotional state or exhaustion etc.) I found the website gracehead.com and Trent through an article in Christianity today or about.com (can't remember which) and started to read some of the articles. One of the articles spoke about Timothy being like a mailman and we shouldn't worship the mailman just because he brings us the mail. I had noticed I had started to elevate Timothy and so that really hit me, and it also showed to me his humbleness even more. I responded to the article and Trent wrote back inviting me to the online study groups. I jumped at the opportunity, and from there its all history. I can't really tell you specifically what I was looking for, not sure I went out to particularly find something, the letters just connected with something deep inside so its hard to really trace back to an event or specific feeling that made me look into this, it just seemed to kind of happen, and the more entrenched I got, the more I wanted more of it.

Frogal: LLG,

wow!!! the first thing that comes to mind is I did NOT want Trent to create the gracehead website @ all. I told him that I felt bad things were gonna become of it. in the beginning, the yrs 05 & 06 trent was writing and posting great stuff on gracehead in fact he had many of our friends and family enjoying his posts etc. sometime in late 06 early jan 07, a man named lyn (apparently trent has known this fella for yrs) linked trent to Timothy Rathbun's trumpetcallofgod site. trent told me that right away he wanted to refute these letters & so called prophet and blow him away. i don't know all the exact details cuz trent did NOT involve me until he read the letters and began believing them. in the process of "refuting" these letters trent, said that he came across a specific letter that spoke about trent's childhood and about stuff only God would know. i read it later and said to trent that that letter can apply to anyone it's a magic trick. he was very defensive and i knew he was gone. i was so scared. trent prolly had dreams like you had & I'm sure that (these kind of things can happen if a person is in a "trance-like" state from a hightened emotional state or exhaustion etc) this happened to trent.

before Timothy Rathbun trumpetcallofgod came into trent's life, he was a different person (i won't get into all of that now) but ppl were drawn to him and he had many friends who enjoyed his view on God. gracehead was popular amongst our crowd. when Timothy Rathbun trumpetcallofgod came into the picture and took over, the ppl who tried to refute timothy were most likely deleated. @ the beginning of timothy's take over, trent took more time with ppl to "try" to convince or whatever and now there's absolutely no tolerance. and i'm betting that i can trace how trent was back in the begining to now & see how the letters have changed his personality, beliefs, etc. Timothy Rathbun trumpetcallofgod has trent in his back pocket. & trent is more than willing to do whatever "God" says thru Timothy Rathbun trumpetcallofgod. it's all so unbelievable to me. i've never seen trent bow down to any man b/4 not until Timothy Rathbun trumpetcallofgod.

i wish that he was were you are LLG cuz then he'd see that he's been put into a trance-like state from a heightened emotional state or exhaustion etc. How did you come across this information about the "trance-like" state?

trent said that when he met Timothy Rathbun trumpetcallofgod, he had finally met someone who got him which scares me cuz maybe trent's a cult leader too like Timothy Rathbun trumpetcallofgod. i hope not.

it makes me very sad to think that trent didn't want to come to me, with this trumpetcallofgod link, b/4 he opened it up. i wonder had he done that if he'd be in this cult? i wonder if your husband or philly feel the same way. i used to blame myself somewhat for his involvement in trumpetcallofgod. maybe had i been a better wife more attentive all that then he might have steered clear of this. i know he has a choice to.

Frogal: llg,

BEING REAL & FEELING A BIT NUMB

thnx very much for your response! i was wondering if you felt lonely in your marriage? or what was it that you were "missing" or "looking" for in trumpetcallofgod cult? u have answered this b/4 but i can't help but wonder if trent wasn't getting some of his needs met with me and so he turned to "the letters" Timothy Rathbun to get them met. i also can't help but wonder if some of this isn't my fault not in a shame or guilt kind of way but more like i am responsible for my actions etc and what i say and do does matter. and in our case "our marriage" maybe i was too **ichy @ times unresponsive etc so, whatever trent had already brought into the marriage, "baggage" i helped exasperate it. idk. it's something that i've been thinking and praying to the Lord for His view, understanding & wisdom.

i do understand somewhat that the "flock" trent's new family is normal to him. it seems to me that Timothy Rathbun in the "letters" represents a father figure to trent & a father figure, who accepts and loves him unconditionally, & one who is a loving law giver unlike his dad Doug. His dad gave the law but hardly any love. His parents brought him up, with the Gothard method, and if you know anything about that; it is a highly highly way of controlling your children. you break the child's will and not their spirit but it's broken too.

i feel scared insecure unsure & lonlely right now. i love trent dearly more now than ever. i don't want to loose him or leave him but i don't know how we're gonna survive in this situation. i've tried to make & keep my life as normal functional and healthy as possible but what trent is doing is spiritual abuse and it's overwhelming @ times. he neglects me & our marriage time and time again & that's what i wonder if i did neglect so he found something to fill that need. well, sometimes i wonder if he neglects me enuf will i be able to resist someone paying attention to me? i don't have the energy to do that but you abuse someone long enuf and idk.

Next yr we'll be going on four yrs since he joined this cult. @ this point, I'm praying hard for wisdom discernment and guidence. i know that i'm free to divorce or do whatever but how can that be the answer. it never seems to me the answer but logic says that i can't live like this for 3 more yrs.

trent says the rapture will happen b/4 Israel turns 63, which is next mayish, but anyone of those so called prophets in trumpetcallofgod cult can change delay or say that it happened. so @ that time, whose gonna see Timothy Rathbun for who he is? many other cult leaders as you know have predicted the coming of the Lord & have been wrong. so will trent see that? idk. the deeper he gets the harder it is to get out but not impossible. is love enuf tho? i know that i can't love him enuf out of this and i've gotta believe that God is listening to our prayers.

right now i'm tired disheartened and out of steam. So i pray talk get counsel take care of myself love trent etc. i want a new husband and marriage cuz this isn't a marriage.

Frogal: Profile of Cult Leaders

1. Glibness/Superficial Charm

Glibness is a hallmark of psychopaths. They are able to use language effortlessly to beguile, confuse, and convince. They are captivating storytellers. They exude self-confidence and are able to spin a web that intrugues others and pulls them into the psychopath's life. Most of all, they are persuasive. Frequently they have the capacity to destroy their critics verbally or disarm them emotionally.

2. Manipulative and Conning

Cult leaders do not recognize the individuality or rights of others, which makes all self-serving behaviors permissible. The hallmark of the psychopath is the _psychopathic maneuver_, which is essentially interpersonal manipulation "based on charm. The manipulator appears to be helpful, charming, even ingratiating or seductive, but is covertly hostile, domineering... [The victim] is perceived as an aggressor, competitor, or merely an instrument to be used ... The manipulation inevitably becomes the end-all and is no longer qualified by the reality principle." In other words, there are no checks on the psychopath's behavior -- anything goes.

The psychopath divides the world into suckers, sinner, and himself. He discharges powerful feelings of terror and rage by dominating and humiliating his victims. He is particularly successful when, through an overlay of charm, he makes an ally of his victim -- a process sometimes described as emotional vampirism or emotional terrorism.

3. Grandiose Sense of Self

The cult leader enjoys tremendous feelings of entitlement. He believes everything is owed to him as a right. Preoccupied with his own fantasies, he must always be the center of attention. He presents himself as the "Ultimate One": enlightened, a vehicle of god, a genius, the leader of humankind, and sometimes the most humble of the humble. He has an insatiable need for adulation and attendance. His grandiosity may also be a defense against inner emptiness, depression, and a sense of insignificance. Paranoia often accompanies the grandiosity, reinforcing the isolation of the group and the need for protection against a perceived hostile environment. In this way, he creates an us-versus-them mentality.

4. Pathological Lying

Psychopaths lie coolly and easily, even when it is obvious they are being untruthful. It is almost impossible for them to be consistently truthful about either a major or minor issue. They lie for no apparent reason, even when it would be easier and safer to tell the truth. This is sometimes called "crazy lying". Confronting their lies may provoke an unpredictably intense rage or simply a Buddha-like smile.

Another form of lying common among cult leaders is known as _pseudologica fantastica_, an extension of pathological lying. Leaders tend to create a complex belief system, often about their own powers and abilities, in which they themselves sometimes get caught up. "It is often difficult to determine whether the lies are an actual delusional distortion of reality or are expressed with the conscious or unconscous intent to deceive."

These manipulators are rarely original thinkers. Plagerists and thieves, they seldom credit the true originators of ideas, often co-opting authorship. They are extremely convincing, forceful in the expression of their views, and talented at passing lie detector tests. For them, objective truth does not exist. The only "truth" is whatever will best achieve the outcome that meets their needs.

5. Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt

At the core of the psychopath is a deep-seated rage which is split off and repressed. Some researchers theorize that this is caused by feeling abandoned in infancy or early childhood. Whatever the emotional or psychological source, psychopaths see those around them as objects, targets, or opportunities, not people. They do not have friends, they have victims and accomplices -- and the latter frequently end as victims. For psychopaths the ends always justify the means. Thus there is no place for feelings of remorse, shame, or guilt. Cult leaders feel justified in all their actions since they consider themselves the ultimate moral arbiter. Nothing gets in their way.

6. Shallow Emotions

While they may display outbursts of emotion, more often than not they are putting on a calculated response to obtain a certain result. They rarely reveal a range of emotions, and what is seen is superficial at best, pretended at worst. Positive feelings of warmth, joy, love, and compassion are more feigned than experienced. They are unmoved by things that would upset the normal person, while outraged by insignificant matters. They are bystanders to the emotional life of others, perhaps envious and scornful of feelings they cannot have or understand. In the end, psychopaths are cold, with shallow emotions, living in a dark world of their own.

Hiding behind the "mask of sanity," the cult leader exposes feelings only insofar as they serve an ulterior motive. He can witness or order acts of utter brutality without experiencing a shred of emotion. He casts himself ina role of total control, which he plays to the hilt. What is most promised in cults -- peace, joy, enlightenment, and security -- are goals that are forever out of reach of the leader, and thus also the followers. Since the leader is not genuine, neither are his promises.

7. Incapacity for Love

As the "living embodiment of God's love," the leader is tragically flawed in being unable to either give or receive love. Love substitutes are given instead. The leader's tremendous need to be loved is accompanied by an equally strong disbelief in the love offered him by his followers; hence, the often unspeakably cruel and harsh testing of his devotees. Unconditional surrender is an absolute requirement.

8. Need for Stimulation

Thrill-seeking behaviors, often skirting the letter or spirit of the law, are common among psychopaths. Such behavior is sometimes justified as preparation for martyrdom: "I know I don't have long to live; therefore my time on this earth must be lived to the fullest." "Surely even I am entitled to have fun or sin a little." This type of behavior becomes more frequent as the leader deteriorates emotionally and psychologically -- a common occurrence.

Cult leaders live on the edge, constantly testing the beliefs of their followers, often with increasingly bizarre behaviors, punishments, and rules. Other mechanisms of stimulation come in the form of unexpected, seemingly spontaneous outbursts, which usually take the form of verbal abuse and sometimes physical punishment. The psychopath has a cool indifference to things around him, yet his icy coldness can quickly turn into rage, vented on those around him.

9. Callousness/Lack of Empathy

Psychopaths readily take advantage of others, expressing utter contempt for anyone else's feelings. Someone in distress is not important to them. Although intelligent, perceptive, and quite good at sizing people up, they make no real connections with others. They use their "people skills" to exploit, abuse, and weild power. Psychopaths are unable to empathize with the pain of their victims.

10. Poor Behavioral Controls / Impulsive Nature

Like small children, many psychopaths have difficulty regulating their emotions. Adults who have temper tantrums are frightening to be around. Rage and abuse, alternating with token expressions of love and approval, produce an addictive cycle for both abuser and abused, as well as create a sense of hopelessness in the later.

The cult leader acts out with some regularity -- often privately, sometimes publicly -- usually to the embarassment and dismay of his followers and other observers. He may act out sexually, aggressively, or criminally, frequently with rage. Generally this aberrant behavior is a well-kept secret, known only to a few disciples. The others see only perfection.

These tendencies are related to the psychopath's need for stimulation and inability to tolerate frustration, anxiety, and depression. Often a leader's inconsistent behavior needs to be rationalized by either the leader or follower in order to maintain internal consistency. It is often regarded as divinely inspired and further separates the empowered from the powerless.

11. Early Behavior Problems / Juvinile Deliquency

Psychopaths frequently have a history of behavioral and academic difficulties. They often "get by" academically, conning other students and teachers. Encounters with juvinile authorities are frequent. Equally prevalent are difficulties in peer relationships and developing and keeping friends, marked control problems, and other aberrant behaviors such as stealing, fire setting, and cruelty to others.

12. Irresponsibility / Unreliability

Not concerned about the consequences of their behavior, psychopaths leave behind them the wreckage of others' lives and dreams. They may be totally oblivious or indifferent to the devestation they inflict on others, something which they regard as neigher their problem nor their responsibility.

Psychopaths rarely accept blame for their failures or mistakes. Scapegoating is common, blaming followers, those outside the group, a member's family, the government, Satan -- anyone and everyone but the leader. The blaming may follow a ritualized procedure such as a trial, "hot seat" denunciation, or public confession. Blame is a powerful reinforcer of passivity and obedience, producing guilt, shame, terror, and conformity in the followers.

13. Promiscuous Sexual Behavior / Infidelity

Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, polygamy, rape, and sexual acting out of all sorts are frequently practiced by cult leaders. Conversely, there is often stringent sexual control of the followers through such tactics as enforced celibacy, arranged marriages, forced breakups and divorces, removal of children from their parents, forced abortions or mandated births. For psychopaths, sex is primarily a control and power issue.

Marital fidelity is rare in the psychopath's life. There are usually countless reports of extramarital affairs and sexual predation upon adult and child members of both sexes. The sexual behavior of the leader may be kept hidden from all but the inner circle or may be part of accepted group sexual practices. In any case, due to the power imbalance between leader and followers, sexual contact is never truly consensual and is likely to have damaging consequences for the follower.

14. Lack of Realistic Life Plan / Parasitic Lifestyle

The psychopath tends to move around a lot, making countless efforts at "starting over" while seeking out fertile new ground to exploit. One day may appear as a rock musician, the next as a messiah; one day a used car salesman, the next the founder of a mass self-transformation program; one day a college professor, the next the new "Lenin" bringing revolution to America.

The flip side of this erratic life planning is the all-encompassing promise for the future that the cult leader makes to his followers. Many groups claim as their goal world domination or salvation at the Apocalypse. The leader is the first to proclaim the utopian nature of the group, which is usually simply another justification for irrational behavior and stringent controls.

The leader's sense of entitlement is often demonstrated by the contrast between his luxurious lifestyle and the impoverishment of his followers. Most cult leaders are supported by gifts and donations from their followers, who may be pressured to turn over much of their income and worldly possessions to the group. Slavery, enforced prostitution, and a variety of illegal acts for the benefit of the leader are common in a cult milieu.

Psychopaths also tend to be preoccupied with their own health while remaining totally indifferent to the suffering of others. They may complain of being "burned out" due to the burden of "caring for" their followers, sometimes stating they do not have long to live, instilling fear and guilt in their devotees and encouraging further servitude. They are highly sensitive to their own pain and tend to be hypercondriacs, which often conflicts with their public image of superhuman self-control and healing abilities. According to them, the illnesses they _don't_ get are due to their powers, while the ones they _do_ get are caused by their "compassion" in taking on their disciples' karma or solving the group's problems. This of course is another guru trick.

15. Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility

Cult leaders change their image and that of the group as needed to avoid prosecution and litigation, to increase their income, and to recruit a range of members. Cult leaders have an innate ability to attract followers who have the skills and connections that the leaders lack. The longevity of the group is dependent on the willingness of the leadership to adapt as needed and preserve the group. Frequently, when illegal or immoral activities are exposed to the public, the cult leader will relocate, sometimes taking followers with him. He wll keep a low profile, only to resurface later with a new name, a new front group, and perhaps a new twist on the scam.

Frogla : A cult is a group with an authoritarian structure and established, rote methods for stopping thoughts, which centers to the exclusion of other activities on the goals and desires of the group's leader or leaders.

This separates cults from "normal" religions, political affiliations, and belief systems which, although perhaps sharing many of the aspects of a cult, do not harmfully interfere with the lives of their members.

I feel that this use of the word "cult" makes a meaningful and useful distinction between harmless and harmful groups, that it clearly and without ambiguity defines a phenomenon which deserves to have a word which can be used to convey the notion of such groups.

The Cult Leader as Psychopath

Cultic groups and relationships are formed primarily to meet specific emotional needs of the leader, many of whom suffer from one or another emotional or character disorder. Few, if any, cult leaders subject themselves to the psychological tests or prolonged clinical interviews that allow for an accurate diagnosis. However, researchers and clinicians who have observed these individuals describe them variously as neurotic, psychotic, on a spectrum exhibiting neurotic, sociopathic, and psychotic characteristics, or suffering from a diagnosed personality disorder.

"Psychopaths are social predators who charm, manipulate, and ruthlessly plow their way through life, leaving a broad trail of broken hearts, shattered expectations, and empty wallets. Completely lacking in conscience and in feelings for others, they selfishly take what they want and do as they please, violating social norms and expectations without the slightest sense of guilt or regret." Dr. Robert Hare

Cult leaders change their image and that of the group as needed to avoid prosecution and litigation, to increase income, and to recruit a range of members. Cult leaders have an innate ability to attract followers who have the skills and connections that the leaders lack. The longevity of the group is dependent on the willingness of leadership to adapt as needed and preserve the group. Frequently, when illegal or immoral activities are exposed to the public, the cult leader will relocate, sometimes taking followers with him. He will keep a low profile, only to resurface later with a new name, a new front group, and perhaps a new twist on the scam.

The cult leader tends to move around a lot, making countless efforts at "starting over while seeking out Fertile new ground to exploit. One day he may appear as a rock musician, the next a messiah; one day a used car salesman, the next the founder of a mass self-transformation program; one day a college professor, the next the new "Lenin" bringing revolution to America.

The flip side of this erratic life planning is the all-encompassing promise for the future that the cult leader makes to his followers. Many groups claim as their goal world domination or salvation at the Apocalypse. The leader is the first to proclaim the utopian nature of the group, which is usually simply another justification for irrational behavior and stringent controls.

The leader's sense of entitlement is often demonstrated by the contrast between his luxurious lifestyle and the impoverishment of his followers. Most cult leaders arc supported by gifts and donations from their followers, who may be pressured to turn over much of their income and worldly possessions to the group. Slavery, enforced prostitution, and a variety of illegal acts for the benefit of the leader are common in a cult milieu.

They may complain of being "burned out" due to the burden of "caring for" their followers, sometimes stating they do not have long to live, instilling fear and guilt in their devotees and encouraging further servitude. they are highly sensitive to their own pain and tend to be hypochondriacs, which often conflicts with their public image of superhuman self-control and healing abilities.

According to them, the illnesses they don't get are due to their powers, while the ones they do get are caused by their "compassion" in taking on their disciples' karma or solving the group's problems. This of course is another guru trick.

Cult members identify with their leaders, and these identifications supplant previous identifications made with parental figures early in life. Because cult leaders generally are paranoid individuals, they indoctrinate their members into a paranoid vision of the world. (Tobias & Lalich, 1994) That is, cult leaders tend to ascribe the worst motives to the behavior of others. When individuals leave the cult, some may continue to have the paranoid feelings of the cult leader. For others, an awareness exists that their trusting nature prior to the cult made them more vulnerable to cult recruitment. For most former cultists, at a time that their sense of self is quite fragile, this paranoid attitude protects them from being unduly influenced by others.

However, in marital relationships, this paranoia can be destructive. When an individual who has been in a cult starts a relationship with someone with no prior cult involvement, the former cultist might interpret his or her partner's behavior suspiciously or see negative motives behind the partner's behavior.

if there is a conflict about certain feelings, those feelings experienced but forbidden often are projected onto the marital partner. The cult leader made members feel as though they were selfish for any expression of self-interest. The leader's attitude that a cult member should have no self-interest can be projected onto the marital partner.

frogal: A cult is a group with an authoritarian structure and established, rote methods for stopping thoughts, which centers to the exclusion of other activities on the goals and desires of the group's leader or leaders.

This separates cults from "normal" religions, political affiliations, and belief systems which, although perhaps sharing many of the aspects of a cult, do not harmfully interfere with the lives of their members.

I feel that this use of the word "cult" makes a meaningful and useful distinction between harmless and harmful groups, that it clearly and without ambiguity defines a phenomenon which deserves to have a word which can be used to convey the notion of such groups.

The Cult Leader as Psychopath

Cultic groups and relationships are formed primarily to meet specific emotional needs of the leader, many of whom suffer from one or another emotional or character disorder. Few, if any, cult leaders subject themselves to the psychological tests or prolonged clinical interviews that allow for an accurate diagnosis. However, researchers and clinicians who have observed these individuals describe them variously as neurotic, psychotic, on a spectrum exhibiting neurotic, sociopathic, and psychotic characteristics, or suffering from a diagnosed personality disorder.

"Psychopaths are social predators who charm, manipulate, and ruthlessly plow their way through life, leaving a broad trail of broken hearts, shattered expectations, and empty wallets. Completely lacking in conscience and in feelings for others, they selfishly take what they want and do as they please, violating social norms and expectations without the slightest sense of guilt or regret." Dr. Robert Hare

Cult leaders change their image and that of the group as needed to avoid prosecution and litigation, to increase income, and to recruit a range of members. Cult leaders have an innate ability to attract followers who have the skills and connections that the leaders lack. The longevity of the group is dependent on the willingness of leadership to adapt as needed and preserve the group. Frequently, when illegal or immoral activities are exposed to the public, the cult leader will relocate, sometimes taking followers with him. He will keep a low profile, only to resurface later with a new name, a new front group, and perhaps a new twist on the scam.

The cult leader tends to move around a lot, making countless efforts at "starting over while seeking out Fertile new ground to exploit. One day he may appear as a rock musician, the next a messiah; one day a used car salesman, the next the founder of a mass self-transformation program; one day a college professor, the next the new "Lenin" bringing revolution to America.

The flip side of this erratic life planning is the all-encompassing promise for the future that the cult leader makes to his followers. Many groups claim as their goal world domination or salvation at the Apocalypse. The leader is the first to proclaim the utopian nature of the group, which is usually simply another justification for irrational behavior and stringent controls.

The leader's sense of entitlement is often demonstrated by the contrast between his luxurious lifestyle and the impoverishment of his followers. Most cult leaders arc supported by gifts and donations from their followers, who may be pressured to turn over much of their income and worldly possessions to the group. Slavery, enforced prostitution, and a variety of illegal acts for the benefit of the leader are common in a cult milieu.

They may complain of being "burned out" due to the burden of "caring for" their followers, sometimes stating they do not have long to live, instilling fear and guilt in their devotees and encouraging further servitude. they are highly sensitive to their own pain and tend to be hypochondriacs, which often conflicts with their public image of superhuman self-control and healing abilities.

According to them, the illnesses they don't get are due to their powers, while the ones they do get are caused by their "compassion" in taking on their disciples' karma or solving the group's problems. This of course is another guru trick.

Cult members identify with their leaders, and these identifications supplant previous identifications made with parental figures early in life. Because cult leaders generally are paranoid individuals, they indoctrinate their members into a paranoid vision of the world. (Tobias & Lalich, 1994) That is, cult leaders tend to ascribe the worst motives to the behavior of others. When individuals leave the cult, some may continue to have the paranoid feelings of the cult leader. For others, an awareness exists that their trusting nature prior to the cult made them more vulnerable to cult recruitment. For most former cultists, at a time that their sense of self is quite fragile, this paranoid attitude protects them from being unduly influenced by others.

However, in marital relationships, this paranoia can be destructive. When an individual who has been in a cult starts a relationship with someone with no prior cult involvement, the former cultist might interpret his or her partner's behavior suspiciously or see negative motives behind the partner's behavior.

if there is a conflict about certain feelings, those feelings experienced but forbidden often are projected onto the marital partner. The cult leader made members feel as though they were selfish for any expression of self-interest. The leader's attitude that a cult member should have no self-interest can be projected onto the marital partner.

Frogal: A cult is a group with an authoritarian structure and established, rote methods for stopping thoughts, which centers to the exclusion of other activities on the goals and desires of the group's leader or leaders.

This separates cults from "normal" religions, political affiliations, and belief systems which, although perhaps sharing many of the aspects of a cult, do not harmfully interfere with the lives of their members.

I feel that this use of the word "cult" makes a meaningful and useful distinction between harmless and harmful groups, that it clearly and without ambiguity defines a phenomenon which deserves to have a word which can be used to convey the notion of such groups.

The Cult Leader as Psychopath

Cultic groups and relationships are formed primarily to meet specific emotional needs of the leader, many of whom suffer from one or another emotional or character disorder. Few, if any, cult leaders subject themselves to the psychological tests or prolonged clinical interviews that allow for an accurate diagnosis. However, researchers and clinicians who have observed these individuals describe them variously as neurotic, psychotic, on a spectrum exhibiting neurotic, sociopathic, and psychotic characteristics, or suffering from a diagnosed personality disorder.

"Psychopaths are social predators who charm, manipulate, and ruthlessly plow their way through life, leaving a broad trail of broken hearts, shattered expectations, and empty wallets. Completely lacking in conscience and in feelings for others, they selfishly take what they want and do as they please, violating social norms and expectations without the slightest sense of guilt or regret." Dr. Robert Hare

Cult leaders change their image and that of the group as needed to avoid prosecution and litigation, to increase income, and to recruit a range of members. Cult leaders have an innate ability to attract followers who have the skills and connections that the leaders lack. The longevity of the group is dependent on the willingness of leadership to adapt as needed and preserve the group. Frequently, when illegal or immoral activities are exposed to the public, the cult leader will relocate, sometimes taking followers with him. He will keep a low profile, only to resurface later with a new name, a new front group, and perhaps a new twist on the scam.

The cult leader tends to move around a lot, making countless efforts at "starting over while seeking out Fertile new ground to exploit. One day he may appear as a rock musician, the next a messiah; one day a used car salesman, the next the founder of a mass self-transformation program; one day a college professor, the next the new "Lenin" bringing revolution to America.

The flip side of this erratic life planning is the all-encompassing promise for the future that the cult leader makes to his followers. Many groups claim as their goal world domination or salvation at the Apocalypse. The leader is the first to proclaim the utopian nature of the group, which is usually simply another justification for irrational behavior and stringent controls.

The leader's sense of entitlement is often demonstrated by the contrast between his luxurious lifestyle and the impoverishment of his followers. Most cult leaders arc supported by gifts and donations from their followers, who may be pressured to turn over much of their income and worldly possessions to the group. Slavery, enforced prostitution, and a variety of illegal acts for the benefit of the leader are common in a cult milieu.

They may complain of being "burned out" due to the burden of "caring for" their followers, sometimes stating they do not have long to live, instilling fear and guilt in their devotees and encouraging further servitude. they are highly sensitive to their own pain and tend to be hypochondriacs, which often conflicts with their public image of superhuman self-control and healing abilities.

According to them, the illnesses they don't get are due to their powers, while the ones they do get are caused by their "compassion" in taking on their disciples' karma or solving the group's problems. This of course is another guru trick.

Cult members identify with their leaders, and these identifications supplant previous identifications made with parental figures early in life. Because cult leaders generally are paranoid individuals, they indoctrinate their members into a paranoid vision of the world. (Tobias & Lalich, 1994) That is, cult leaders tend to ascribe the worst motives to the behavior of others. When individuals leave the cult, some may continue to have the paranoid feelings of the cult leader. For others, an awareness exists that their trusting nature prior to the cult made them more vulnerable to cult recruitment. For most former cultists, at a time that their sense of self is quite fragile, this paranoid attitude protects them from being unduly influenced by others.

However, in marital relationships, this paranoia can be destructive. When an individual who has been in a cult starts a relationship with someone with no prior cult involvement, the former cultist might interpret his or her partner's behavior suspiciously or see negative motives behind the partner's behavior.

if there is a conflict about certain feelings, those feelings experienced but forbidden often are projected onto the marital partner. The cult leader made members feel as though they were selfish for any expression of self-interest. The leader's attitude that a cult member should have no self-interest can be projected onto the marital partner.

Frogal: The-end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it prophecies

For millennium, people have been predicting the year, the month and sometimes the day when:
A violent and sudden disaster will terminate all life on earth;

Major social and political upheavals will be experienced around the world;

The war of Armageddon will take place in the Middle East;

God will pour horrendous wrath on most of humanity; and/or

Christ will return in what is referred to as the second coming, accompanied by a group of avenging angels who will commit the largest genocide in human history: over 2 billion people are to be assassinated.

The prophesiers have almost always predicted that some major events would happen in their own immediate future. Both Jesus and Paul anticipated that "the end" would happen sometime in the first century CE. They were wrong. Thousands have predicted major events ever since.

All of these predictions share one attribute: none has ever come true.

"The way to tell when one of these groups becomes dangerous is when the focus becomes not God, or Scripture, but the person of the leader."

Quote:
rrmoderator
"The only deprogrammer ever to work with members of the ill-fated Branch Davidians in Waco, Texas, Ross said cult leader David Koresh was a textbook example of a leader-focus.
"It came down to you did what David said," he said. "He had an answer for everything."

Ross said he asked former followers of Koresh whether the cult leader tolerated disagreements with his interpretation of the Bible. Those he asked said Koresh would allow argument but would never admit he was wrong or mistaken in his interpretation.

Bible-based cults like Koresh's tend to be extremely authoritarian and legalistic, Ross said. As an example of legalism, he mentioned certain practices of the United Pentecostal Church, which prohibited women from cutting their hair, wearing jewelry or immodest clothing. Men must have conservative haircuts and shun jewelry.

People from all walks of life, socioeconomic classes and levels of intelligence may be targeted by cults. When someone is feeling lonely or isolated, they vulnerable.

Today, especially among people ages 18 to 26, there is a desire to find someone to provide answers to life's questions, Ross said. "We live in a country with so many choices, and these groups can give a list of what is right, what is wrong, and give people a purpose." become vulnerable.

Today, especially among people ages 18 to 26, there is a desire to find someone to provide answers to life's questions, Ross said. "We live in a country with so many choices, and these groups can give a list of what is right, what is wrong, and give people a purpose."

Miller founded Concerned Christians in the early 1980s, preaching against the evils of cults and New Age movements. Along with Honsberger and Roggeman, Miller originally counseled people involved in cults and so-called New Age religions. In October of 1996, Roggeman, Honsberger and a seminary student confronted Miller with their concern of his control over several people in his group. During the confrontation, the three men claimed Miller began speaking to them, according to Miller, "...in God's own voice..." while referring to himself as "Kim" in the third person.

The group's leader, 44-year old Monte Kim Miller, espoused his belief that an apocalypse would strike Denver, and stated his intention to die in the streets of Jerusalem in December 1999, only to rise again in three days. Miller has made other doomsday predictions and claims to be the voice of God.

Miller might have started the movement as a financial scam. Nevertheless, the group transformed itself into an apocalyptic personality cult. Miller, 44, claimed that God was using him as a vehicle to speak to his followers. After prophesying that the Apocalypse would begin with an earthquake in Denver on October 16, the cult dropped from sight. It is believed they might be in Mexico en route to Jerusalem.

My fear is that, if (Miller's prophecy) doesn't happen, he's liable to do something bizarre just to ensure his place in history. And there's nobody in his group who could say, 'I don't think the Bible says that.' He has that much control.You question him - you question God."

The May 2011 end of times paranoia started with Harold Camping of Family Radio, who says that mathematics in the bible point to that date as the day that Jesus Christ is coming back to declare judgment on the world.

Believers are encouraged to make signs and distribute them in order to warn humanity of its impending doom and to repent and find Jesus.

existing cult syndrome
SelahSelah: I relate to you on this LLG, the letters are very enticing and they sound real, they sound like God talk, the hope of the rapture, the promise of the set date, and Timothy seeming genuine and sincere, but only from a distance and when he has the time.

I had some serious issues I needed help with but Timothy would never even give me the time to talk with me in private, he would only divert me to Trent. When he did this it made me feel like he was trying to hide something or like he didn't want me to get too close to him.

It also didn't help that it seemed like Trent counseled me with things in a condescending demeanor (I no longer hold any ill will or resentment towards any of the members but I was made to feel like I was a horrible person from the start because of my questions, thoughts, or struggles instead of being able to have someone to confide in) as well as told/ counseled me to do things that were in contradiction to the letters. That sent me in spiraling because I was under the assumption that since Timothy was an all knowing prophet (who was supposedly humble, compassionate, loving and cared so much for his 'flock') would let Trent 'counsel' me that Trent must know what he is talking about, instead I was being pulled in two opposite directions and left more confused and abandoned than I came.

Some days I feel so weak and reclusive and I find myself wanting to run back to 'safety' in the letters/ flock (but of course for the most part I have been ostracized-which makes it a little more easy, but makes me curious as to the fruit the letters produce. It's like all Timothy has to do is give the ok and they all turn on you or frown upon on you)

But most days I just want to break down and cry because I feel so helpless and lost and find it hard to trust anyone and I am always afraid God is mad at me and find myself 'floating' throughout the day and I don't even need a trigger, just isolation. I know, I need help.

SelahSelah: Post-Cult Trauma Syndrome

SelahSelah: After exiting a cult, an individual may experience a period of intense and often conflicting emotions. She or he may feel relief to be out of the group, but also may feel grief over the loss of positive elements in the cult, such as friendships, a sense of belonging or the feeling of personal worth generated by the group's stated ideals or mission. The emotional upheaval of the period is often characterized by "post-cult trauma syndrome":

* spontaneous crying
* sense of loss
* depression & suicidal thoughts
* fear that not obeying the cult's wishes will result in God's wrath or loss of salvation
* alienation from family, friends
* sense of isolation, loneliness due to being surrounded by people who have no basis for understanding cult life
* fear of evil spirits taking over one's life outside the cult
* scrupulosity, excessive rigidity about rules of minor importance
* panic disproportionate to one's circumstances
* fear of going insane
* confusion about right and wrong
* sexual conflicts
* unwarranted guilt

The period of exiting from a cult is usually a traumatic experience and, like any great change in a person's life, involves passing through stages of accommodation to the change:

* Disbelief/denial: "This can't be happening. It couldn't have been that bad."
* Anger/hostility: "How could they/I be so wrong?" (hate feelings)
* Self-pity/depression: "Why me? I can't do this."
* Fear/bargaining: "I don't know if I can live without my group. Maybe I can still associate with it on a limited basis, if I do what they want."
* Reassessment: "Maybe I was wrong about the group's being so wonderful."
* Accommodation/acceptance: "I can move beyond this experience and choose new directions for my life" or...
* Reinvolvement: "I think I will rejoin the group."

Passing through these stages is seldom a smooth progression. It is fairly typical to bounce back and forth between different stages. Not everyone achieves the stage of accommodation / acceptance. Some return to cult life. But for those who do not, the following may be experienced for a period of several months:

* flashbacks to cult life
* simplistic black-white thinking
* sense of unreality
* suggestibility, ie. automatic obedience responses to trigger-terms of the cult's loaded language or to innocent suggestions
* disassociation (spacing out)
* feeling "out of it"
* "Stockholm Syndrome": knee-jerk impulses to defend the cult when it is criticized, even if the cult hurt the person
* difficulty concentrating
* incapacity to make decisions
* hostility reactions, either toward anyone who criticizes the cult or toward the cult itself
* mental confusion
* low self-esteem
* dread of running into a current cult-member by mistake
* loss of a sense of how to carry out simple tasks
* dread of being cursed or condemned by the cult
* hang-overs of habitual cult behaviors like chanting
* difficulty managing time
* trouble holding down a job

Most of these symptoms subside as the victim mainstreams into everyday routines of normal life. In a small number of cases, the symptoms continue.

* This information is a composite list from the following sources: "Coming Out of Cults", by Margaret Thaler Singer

Endgame: I have been reading through this forum concerning this cult for the last week or so. I wanted to start from the beginning and read all the way through to the end of it all before deciding to comment or not. As you can see I decided to comment...

I was 19 at the time that my experiences happened with this "cult." I was in a relationship with one of the Trumpet Call of God's cult member's daughter. My ex-girlfriend's mother is married to Timothy's brother in-law. I have met "Timothy" on several occasions in the past. It was about the time that this guy was first starting this whole cult.

I can say from first hand experience that he does pray on the biblically ignorant, and weaker minded people as his main "recruits." My ex's mother and step-father had little to no christian regilious background. Their marriage was about to end also, because of issues of alochol and cheating. I seen it that Timothy pretty much told these two he could save there marriage, and make everything else in their lives better if they followed him and these letters.

As soon as these people I knew started to get involved with Timothy and follow his so called teachings you could see a major difference in the way these people acted and lived there lives. As I seen it they given up the control of their lives to this man. Whenever they had a problem in their lives they would ask Timothy, and he would deliver a "letter from God" which would show them the solution. This was very hard to watch.

Life really got hard on my realtionship with my ex-girlfriend when they decided it was our time to join the "group." I tried to shield my ex-girlfriend (lets call her Susan) from all of this not stop bombardment. Her step-father(lets call him Jim) and mother(lets call her Tina) became very unkind and sometimes down right mean to Susan becuase she would not fold to there beliefs. I became a target as well, but that only lasted shortly once they figured out I wasn't going to fall for it. Timothy had written a letter directly to Susan a few months into her mother and step-father trying to push these beliefs onto her. I wish I could show you what was in it. This was these most guilt stricken, mean, a spitful letter I had ever written. Simply put it stated that Susan did not love her family, or God if she didn't follow her families' wishes and join the group.

Sadly, my realtionship with Susan ended in large part to this cult and among other reasons. After we went our seperate ways she was drug down into this cult as far as one could be. It was on of the hardest things in my life to see this happen. I felt and still feel responsible for it. I believe I was Susan's anchor to keep her from being lost in that craziness, and once I was no longer there that nothing was to stop it from happening. It's still something I have a hard time deal with the guilt from it all. Susan has since married and had a child, as to which her husband is apart of this group now too.

I also want to add something about the times I had been around Timothy. Timothy would come to some of the family events that Susan's family would have, and just the way he acted was strange. He was always keeping himself seperate from the whole group of people. Most generally he seemed to think he was more superior to the others. I guess there is so much that I have bottled up about this Timothy and his followers that I felt like I needed to get out... I'm sorry if this post is kinda all over the place, like it feels...

What I seen in the 2 years I was with Susan and being affected by this Timothy and his group really scares me... I just stumbled onto this page and I didn't realize how big it had become. I was also wondering if some of these people commenting on here being affected by this group are from central Nebraska area... or is it more wide spread internet based? It's just sad what Timothy has done to these people, and that what these people do to there realtionships with their friends and families if their not believers...

I guess I just wanted to leave you all with a God Bless and stay strong with your faith in God and do not fall for this guy...

Endgame: I really don't know what help and/or comfort I can really offer to people here dealing with this cult. I haven't been in contact with members of this cult for over 4 years now. Anyone can message me if they like, as I'm already speaking privately with one individual off this site since posting my last message. I do not know of anyone escaping this cult. I pretty much had all ties cut with this cult once my relationship end with my girl friend at the time.

As in being directly influenced by Speed, I never gave him the chance to have a one on one sit down talk with me. I'm not going to call him Timothy because I believe it's all a lie and to refer to him as much is supporting the lie. I believe he wanted to talk directly to me on one occasion as a family event we were both attending, but I wanted no part of this guy. It was sufficent in blocking his attempts of recruiting my girlfriend at the time. I did not want to take it to that much of a conversational situation with him. After that I was targeted as a non-believer I suppose and my realtionship with the believing family members started to worsen.

Even before this event I began consulting highly spiritual friends in the christian faith. These people all said the same thing, as to avoid contact with him and his followers at all costs, as to go as far as ending the relationship with my girlfriend because she wouldn't cut ties with her believing family members. Anyone that knew me back then should have known better than myself backing down to this, and to loose this girl I cared for so much was the last thing I was going to allow. In the end though I did loose her. Pressure came from both sides, my family and hers. It was so much to deal with, and this being the first girl I had ever dated and cared so much for was really bringing me to a depressed and angry state. I had contemplated taking my own life when our relationship had ended. I truthfully was as close as I think someone could get without doing the deed. Looking back I realize how stupid it was to even think that.

Strange events had occured the last couple months of our relationship though. We had been fighting so hard to stay together, but it had seemed everything was against us at the time. The pressure from both sides of our families, money problems, the fights between the two of us, and everything else life throws at you. There is one specific event I will never forget. I have never told anyone about this, and I can't say if she had either... I swear to God what I'm about to say is true. One night my girlfriend and I had the worst fight of our lives over the phone. To the point of screaming, name calling, crying, everything that you want to take back once the fight is over. One of us ended hanging up on the other, I can't recall if it was her or me... I was in the basement of my mothers house on the bed and just wanted to fall asleep and forget about the bad fight we just had so I could cool off and call her in the morning. I thought it was kinda wierd she wasn't trying to call me back as she had always done no matter who hung up on whom. I shrugged it off and attempt to go to sleep. At about that time I started to get this strange feeling, that I wasn't alone in the room. As I laid there the feeling just got worse and worse. It wasn't a good feeling if it ever could be, thinking I'm in the same room with something I couldn't see but feel somehow. I was starting to get really scared now. I haven't researched any kind of demonic prescence, but all I could think was this was scaring the crap out of me and something was totally not right. It to the point where I ran outta the room and outside the house to call my girlfriend. She picked up the phone and was crying and just as scared as I was, she wanted to come over and pick me up, and I said yes. Once in the car she said she had tried calling me over and over again... but the only number that would show up on her cell phone screen was 6. I hadn't even told her about the what as I can explain as evil prescence in my room. Once I told her about that we were scard to death. We didn't know what to do. We kinda just made up then and there and spent the night together back at her place scared to death of what happened earlier. The feeling of the precence I felt went away after she came over and got me, and her phone worked fine when she tried it when I was in the car. I can only say that I hope I never have a feeling and/or event like this again in my life.

I'm not saying that I can trace lines to that verdict that Speed or his cult had something to do with this. I just think with all the conflicts we had had with the beliefs of this cult and it's members, and trying to stay on the right path of God with what I believe to be my correct sense of Christianity that something demonic seen it chance to do something... whatever it had planned I don't know...

I've had alot of reserve about posting this, and I do please hope ya'll don't think I'm blowing smoke up your dress... I just pray ya'll stay strong in your faith with God and trust in Jesus. This event may not have any direct tie to the Trumpet Call Of God cult and Speed, but I think it was triggered by the events in the two of ours' lifes, as to which pressure from this cult was not helping the fact.

wendyjduncan: Hey, claudinejaz, my husband and I facilitate a support group in the Dallas area. if interested, they can check out our website at www.dallascult.com. I think the connection with Texas is that the second in command lives here.

For abusive cults, the key word is CONTROL CONTROL CONTROL by Submitting to the Leadership - leaders tend to be the absolute end, looked to as prophets of God, as specially anointed apostles. Or they can be a strong, controlling, manipulative personality who demands submission even if he changes his views or conflicts occur in doctrine or behavior. Sometimes they can be looked on as God Himself. Often to obey a leader and their teaching is equal to obeying God.

It can take time for them to gain power over the new convert, but it will eventually be there. Control is usually overwhelming and can cover most aspects of the followers' lives: Dress codes, activities, finances, time, possessions and relationships. They can dictate to the member who to see, what to do, what is the right thing to say, and how to say it. Various degrees of control can be experienced, from subtle manipulation to blatant ordering. They will expect Rigid obedience of the members time and activities - involving their followers in physically and emotionally draining activities leaving little time for privacy and reflection, or questioning their authority. Expecting one to show up when everyone else does, and everything is usually done in groups.

The methods of control which are used is usually FEAR of displeasing God the leader or both. Fear of rejection, punishment, losing ones salvation, missing the rapture, going to hell. Guilt, Fear, intimidation are Weapons used to maintain their loyalty and devotion to the group.

Intimidation and accusation are the most often used. For example, any questioning of authority is treated as rebellion, and not trusting. They suppress questions and conform to the groups behavior. They Discourage Critical or Rational Thought and Questions they will reply with comments like, "Satan is the cause of all doubt; he is keeping you from the Truth," or it will take time to understand the deep things of God. Critical thinking is discouraged being called prideful or sinful or rebellious. No independent thinking is encouraged.

They over simplify answers to life's questions, making everything for all situations as simple as black or white.

COMMAND OVER THE GROUP IN INTIMATE MATTERS: Telling one who to date or who to marry. Decisions are made by the leader as to who, and when your ready (Moonies International churches of Christ). Extremes can be no seeing the opposite sex to promiscuity in sexual relations, (Children of God), group sex (New Age Therapy groups, Some Eastern religious gurus) child sex, adultery, and polygamy (Branch Davidian's, certain Mormon sects, children of God) sex is used as an initiation into the cult (as well as occult and Satanic groups).

Sexual impurity especially among the leaders, can be common and promoted. Doctrinal deception is more than often displayed by moral deception. (Polygamy, spiritual wives, adultery, fornication and sexual sin is acceptable). The leader believes that he is above everyone or is an exception to God's laws so he may not follow his own rules.

GROUP TRUST: Confession Sessions are used to build relationships . Full disclosure of all secret sins, thoughts, temptations, desires are expressed with those you know and may not know to build up your trusting them with your life . These can become a powerful tools to emotionally bond you to the leader or group. They later can be used to manipulate, or blackmail some one if and when they decide to leave.

A DOUBLE STANDARD: There is one standard for the followers and another for the leaders can do almost anything wrong while others will be rebuked and made examples of if they do the same things.

Christ teaches that leaders should be servants of those they lead. Cult leaders exalt themselves, requiring the followers to serve them or the church's program. Jesus said, "The greatest among you will be your servant" Matthew 23:11. He said of Himself, "The Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many" Matthew 20:28. This is a sure way to see what your involved , since what cults practice is backwards.

TAKES LICENSE WITH GOD'S WORD:. The Scripture is not rightly divided. Private revelations and interpretations are added to the Word, and sometimes substitute it. Passages contradictory to the orthodox beliefs are being twisted and taken out of their context. Strong emphasis is placed upon certain passages making them their thrust in ministry. While other pertinent scriptures on essentials and practice are completely ignored. Bible scholars who give a different interpretation from the cultists' are ignored or ridiculed.

MISPLACED LOYALTY: Someone involved in an abusive system finds their of loyalty is nurtured and even demanded. Loyalty for Christ is replaced by an organization, church or leader. Because authority is usually from an individual or a group one is asked if they will be loyal to God confusing the member that to be loyal to a person or group means the same. With the Jehovah's Witnesses with their blind loyalty to whatever the Watchtower says.

ISOLATION: Information control is practiced where members of the group are not allowed or discouraged to have contact with outside family members, other ministries or Christians that could influence them. This is done to prevent information that may expose what is going on internally. They cut off or denigrating outside sources of information, especially if it is critical of the group. One is not allowed to read or converse with those who say these things or was once part of the group and left for whatever circumstances. Ties are severed with former friends and family and the circle becomes tighter as the only people you are exposed are them. one reads only their books and are discouraged or forbidden to read other books especially if one opposes their views.

If evidence is presented that they have had false prophecies or they are used to make money. The focus is shifted members are taught to question the motives or character of the person and ignore the evidence. So the focus is on the others character and not the proof that they have. They will be called emissaries of Satan so that they can't be trusted with anything they have.

AN "US AGAINST THEM" ATTITUDE AND PHILOSOPHY: Anyone who challenges the cult's doctrine is automatically branded as an enemy which is usually anyone who disagrees. The cultists feel that they are being persecuted unfairly. On the other hand, true Christians accept persecution, knowing that it tests the genuineness of their faith. New members are told Satan will cause friends and family to say bad things about their group and that they should only trust their new family. We should expect to be persecute for the truth we have. It becomes an 'us against them' mentality. clichés are given, such as "Who is more important, God or school?' or "Don't you love God with all your heart, don't you trust us, do you know of anyone who cares about you more?" "We are the only ones who have the truth," "don't you want to be found faithful."

FOCUS ON AN IMAGINED ENEMY: The enemy is seen to be the government, the IRS, the Illuminati new world order UFO's (or other conspirators) the Jews, Blacks (other ethnic groups if they are politically oriented) certain church denominations are considered the enemy. The focus shifts from inside and instead of God's truth and purpose, keeps the adherents busy towards something outside, It also stops them from looking in and really thinking things through.

END-TIME REVELATION: Special insights into the end of the world and the second coming of Jesus Christ are claimed. The book of revelation is mostly used ,among other immediate prophecies. Koresh claimed an exclusive understanding of the "seven seals" in Revelation, and believed that he was the one ordained to open them. Elizabeth C. Prophet of the church universal has prophecies from ascended masters telling about the end times.

MOTIVATIONAL TEACHING: Techniques designed to stimulate emotions, usually employing loud speaking or music with group participation, group dynamics are used to influence responses. Your overwhelmed with smiling faces and handshakes and hugs with unconditional friendship. Those who were newly invited will be asked how they liked it and told how much fun they have and what they have to offer. They will immediately become your best friend and want to know when your coming back.

RULES OF SILENCE: Their are rules which govern churches which are often not stated or written down. Beware if they say the only statement we have is the Bible. Since the rules are not spoken verbally, you don't find out that the rule (s) exist until you've broken one. It is taken for granted that you should know them. Or you're taught them after you have joined.

The unspoken rule may come across like this: Do not disagree with the church authorities -- especially the pastor or your spirituality and loyalty will be questioned. Silence becomes a fortress wall of protection, many will shield the pastor's position of power from any scrutiny or challenge. If one questions what is said or the rules they are seen as being against them and God or divisive.

The can't talk to others rule is probably the most consistent one used. If you speak about the problem to others, YOU JUST BECOME THE PROBLEM. You must become silent and just ignore it or will be asked to leave. Neither can you discuss things with others who left while you are still in the group or it will be considered betrayal.

CONVERSION TECHNIQUES: Conversion into a cult is done by dynamic interactions. They look for those who are new to the town or school. The easiest to involve someone is when they are weak and vulnerable they instantly become a potential recruit. This vulnerability can be enhanced by transitional situations in life such as divorce, depression, abuse, handicapped, a job or career change, moving away from home or leaving college, few friends, an illness, or death of a loved one, new to an area, loneliness, loss of job, or someone backsliding. Those whom have had numerous bad experiences with love in their lives, feel rejected by people and insecure are attracted to cults. These groups make them instantly feel accepted and superior giving them friendship and acceptance. Many people who become discontent and disappointed in their prior church experiences are open to something new, even something radically different.

The tactics used to convert, indoctrinate the members. Some groups attempt a radical and quick conversion with an intensive weekend retreat or week long seminar such as The Forum or Scientology. Others have a more subtle approach which may take weeks or months such as the Jehovah's Witnesses and International churches of Christ. Although all push for something for quicker decisions to join.

REVELATION KNOWLEDGE: Emotions, intuitions, revelations and mystical insights are promoted over the objective word. They become more important than objective conclusions and what has already been revealed in scripture Critical Thinking is discouraged , independent thought can be looked at as selfish, and rational use of intellect as evil.

MYSTICAL ALTERED STATES: The flesh is considered evil the Sprit is good (Gnosticism). Subjective experiences are accepted more quickly than constructive teaching New age uses Repetition of words, Techniques which include relaxation, chanting, hypnosis, meditation, trance states, guided imagery or visualization, deep breathing exercises - all of these bring a person into an altered state, a highly suggestible state. These techniques can cause psychological imbalance. What is relaxation becomes the opposite promoting anxiety. Many cannot handle stilling the mind or visualizing. The affects are not immediately noticed and usually catch up later.

LEADERS HAVE A PRIDEFUL UNTEACHABLE SPIRIT: The attitude that "no one can Judge me or tell me what to do" is fostered by pride the leader is in deception and promotes deception to the followers. The leader becomes untouchable by anyone. He is accountable to God only and everyone must obey what he says like it is Gods words. Included in this is the attitude that 'we are always right" from the leadership. When Hobart Freeman began Faith Assembly, loyalty to him and his teachings were to be accepted without question. To question Freeman, a self-acknowledged "prophet of God" was to risk the charge of blasphemy. Many people died including himself from his teaching on healing. This continues today by the word/faith movement and believing for your healing. All false doctrine has pride as its catalyst and arrogance as its practice.

PRIDE OF THE GROUP: We are the only ones who are right. If you are not one of us, then you are destined for hell. Correct doctrine is used by them alone to the exclusion of any others, they alone have the truth so one must join them to be saved. they have an us against them attitude which can be very dangerous.

They appoint new "inside" meanings to ordinary words or the use of an exclusive vocabulary subtly moving a person to want to become a member. A appearance of false Spirituality is given from the language. What was formerly known by a certain phrase or word now has a new meaning behind it.

BRAINWASHING: New inductees are brainwashed increment by increment, until the convert identifies with the Church and its leaders and ties with family society are broken. Many claim no one can be brainwashed if they don't want to be. But who ever wanted to be unless they were convinced first it is a good thing. So it is disguised as what is right and true. While there are some subtle differences between mind control and brainwashing the results are the same, obedience. A systematic teaching indoctrinates members into the beliefs of the cult. This is a methodical process of seducing and deceiving. A lie is told over and over until it is accepted and believed. A reprogramming of the conscience is done by other members and systematic teachings . Certain techniques used for what is called thought reform and mind conditioning. Members are kept under physical, mental and emotional pressure they can become too fatigued to resist or think for themselves, or they become to busy as they can comply with all the groups activities.

DEVOTION TO CONVERT OTHERS TO THEIR GROUP AND ITS BELIEF SYSTEM: Cults demand a strong commitment from their members. They promise rewards for being faithful to their leaders and organization. EX: one can be kept out of the tribulation if found doing God's work (JW).

Service to the church is understood as service to God. Meetings are mandatory. In the I.C.C., one's meetings will keep them so busy they will no longer have time for their friends and family, job or hobbies. They are replaced with a new family and friends and a new view of life.

The priority, rather than bringing others into a saving relationship with Christ is to have them gain membership. Flattery is used, they can be very are crafty and everything is done with an objective. Instead of plainness, openness and honesty. They hide their real motives and teachings until they know one is ready. When they are convinced that you will do anything for God and their group, it is then that they will disclose the full extent of their teachings and mission.

DISTORTED TITHING OR EXCESSIVE GIVING: Certain members Keep track of your commitment of what your to give. they may have you write down what you can give and keep you to the obligation. More and more money is needed to attain higher degrees of spirituality (word faith, International churches of Christ), or complete submission to God requires one to give up everything to the group or leader for the cause. Give to get back from God, the more you give the more God will give back.

We must be ready to "test the spirits" (1 John 4:1), and to "beware of false prophets which come to you in sheep's (Christian) clothing" (Matthew 7:15). The key to discernment is awareness (Hosea 4:6), for how can one beware unless one is first aware. We become aware by first by familiarizing one self with the truth, but also become aware how the enemy distorts the truth to attract and snare us.

ATTEMPTING TO BRING IN THE KINGDOM NOW: It is up to us to change society and government. Force may even be promoted. Distrust and paranoia may empower the Cult as they could feel that they are threatened and subject to attack. This causes them to stockpile food and weapons and take extreme measures to insure protection from their imagined enemies. In Christianity some want to take over the world and Christianize the government and the people so that after it is done Christ will come back.

TOTAL COMMITMENT: is expected of the followers to the leader[s]. Their commitment requires that property and money be given in the hands of the leader[s]. Ones time, talent, and money are all at the disposal of the church or leaders. It is all focused on their mission which is interpreted as Gods. While many do use the great commission as a basic concept they change it to mean something than it actually does.

INDIVIDUALITY IS SACRIFICED FOR THE GROUP: The group's concerns supersede an individual's goals, needs, aspirations, Conformity is the key. The end Justifies the Means - Any action or behavior is justifiable as long as it furthers the group's goals. To lie to others outside the group is ok since they are serving Satan.

INCONSISTENT DISCIPLINED LIFE: very strict rules in some areas and completely loose in others. Will make up extra rules to either forbid things normally done (legalism such as movies, male or female swimming) or will allow total freedom to the extreme such as in the family and sex for Jesus. There is no balance but only extremes.

MARTYRDOM COMPLEX: Cultists may be willing to die for what they believe to he true, out of loyalty to the man or God they follow. Even to the point of mass suicide as we have seen with Jim Jones, Koresh, Heavens Gate, etc. Others such as the Christian Science and Jehovah Witnesses convince individuals of suicide by denying medical treatment or blood for their life.

CURSES and THREATS: Are put on those who leave the group or oppose them afterwards. They are told there is no where else to go. Threats are made subtly or to their face. Once one is in there is no easy way out. The hardest part is when friends and family are involved. One will often have to give up their friendships and their family if they want to keep a good standing. That should be a red flag for anyone who hears this kind of talk.

http://www.letusreason.org/culteac.htm

Cult Busters: My wife abducted my 1 year old into this cult. she is making videos now. I will tell about my situation later. She is really brainwashed and is using this cult and God to gain her own following. Check out first hand how this cult destroys families and separates children from their parents. this cult is very deceptive. This Timothy knows what he is doing. he has trained himself in hypnosis. The letters have audio as you all know. When a person listens to these letters over and over again (as wife listen with earphone) it wires the brain. He uses a loud authoritative voice and a passive quit voice. These are known hypnotic methods. I am going after this guy he is partly responsible for my anguish I go through day and night miss my child I have only spent a year with. Anyhow here is her youtube page. Please comment on her videos maybe she will snap out of it.
http://www.youtube.com/user/LoveLaborersCOME

gracevslaw: Saleh that is great information and it seems that this cult has everyone of these characteristics. Sad. I will check out letusreason.org.

I have heard that there are @ least 6 members including Timothy Trent and Jayse who say they are 6 of the 144,000 prophets and Timothy says he will be transformed into a God.

In the letters those those who loves Yahweh are told to come out of the organization called church, keep the 10 commandments, the Sabbath, Holy Feasts rather than Holidays, because of the letters --The letters of God and His Christ speak harshly against the false doctrine of hell and torment and do not confirm Obama as the antichrist. They engage in all the usual cult tactics of coercion, family destruction, unquestionable authority of the leader, and a word from their god given ONLY to them. They teach heavily the end times are near and have many teachings consistant with the LDS SDA and Hebrew Roots Movement.

gracevslaw: They scare new believers by saying if you do not believe the letters you will not go to heaven and will be excommunicated. They preach there is no hell & those who do not believe wil simply perish.

They call themselves "The Lord's Little Flock".

This group sets itself up as the supreme authority between God and Man & claims the following:

1. The Bible is seen as an insufficient guide for spiritual truth. Cult members are told to use the cult's literature for the proper understanding of God's truth.
2. Group leaders are seen as God's "channel of communication" to man. They equate loyalty to the group as loyalty to God.
They foster a "we/they" mentality to the world, claiming that only inside the group can one find truth and ultimate salvation, and that outside the group is "Satan's world."
3. Doubt and criticism of the group or leaders are disallowed. They often claim that "independent thinking" is evidence of "pride," and is seen as questioning God and His arrangement for life.
4. Adherents dispense personal identity for the group mold and take on the personality and characteristics of the totalistic environment of the cult.

All I have to say is Timothy messed with the wrong persons family. I am in security I have strong intuition and can read people just by their body language I see right through Timothy's cult and the other higher ups. I have friends in the media, police force and special ops so I have good team of friends that are on stand by waiting for me to get certain things ready to deal with this man.

I have so much info on Timothy and his cult it is not funny. I know where he lives, his phone number how much he money he makes. I will never stop till my daughter is home and I have exposed this vile human being.
If my wife wants to stay with this cult that is her choice but not with my child. I know a lot about mind control and programming which is what he uses, hypnosis is one of them. The letters cause people to dream dreams my wife had many dreams because she would listen to the letters with ear phones right before bed this puts the person in a lucid dream state.

I know this cults language. Timothy knows and (I believe) how the mind works. He also can tell how lost his followers are he has studied the workings of cults as I have also since My wife got mixed up with this cult. My wife is very prideful and wants the attention she never had growing up. She was dropped of to a controlling and spoiling grandmother at age 7. she was into drugs, satanism and the new movement and many fear based traumatic experiences, this causes the mind to splinter off in to many different sections in the mind and can cause multiple personality disorder. Before the cult my wife was messed up, yet at the same time she knew how to wear a mask very well and hide it she was so good at hiding it I even pushed my gut feeling about something being wrong with her many times when we first met. I gave her a chance to be real but she had no identity from lack of knowing her parents and everything she went through. Tiara in her videos you can see the emptiness in her eyes. I feel for My wife but at the same time I am angry because when I told her this man Timothy is a false prophet she did not listen. Even when I gave blatant proof of this man's false claims, but it was too late. I feel for all of you who were taken in by Timothy's sweet lie sandwiches( two pieces of lie with some truth in the middle).

I Thank THE LORD that HE delivered you from that nightmare. I tell you this... all who came out of this trap and are healing from this I have much love and respect for you, as I know that this is where most of the damage is, when you leave. Just know that we all have been deceived in one way or another.

Do not beat yourself up The devil is a good liar and so is Timothy. But lies crumble and his lie is starting to crumble. If it is not to hard to watch please watch this video of my wife being programmed. look at her face deep down inside she knows it is wrong. I just want your feedback to confirm what I see in this video. The lady Amy Chavez is almost yelling at her and you can see my wife's frustration. If any one has any information on this lady Amy Chavez please let me know. She helped abduct my child.


Thank you LLG and SelahSelah May THE LORD Bless you and keep you. He made you stronger and more aware of cults and brainwashing. Our subconscious is a intricate thing and when it is targeted and attacked it is hard to know at first.

here is the video
[www.youtube.com]

TALK TO YOU ALL SOON!
May continue to THE LORD bless you
Cult buster 1

Tig: Selah Selah it's interesting that you say that Arthur doesn't fully believe in the letters. Can you elaborate on that? I have posted things on facebook opposing the teachings of the letters and he "liked" them. I wondered if maybe he just didn't get what I was saying but if you know for sure he has doubts maybe that was the reason. Also, Tim has said that at the time Arthur was one of the few who actually would be gathered.

Also to be noted, several of the studies at trumpetcallofgodonline have been taken down. Apparently it is because they only want The Lord's words there. Funny coincidence that it just happens to be at the near end of 2011 when the studies explain that the "flock" will be gathered.

Anyone familiar with Project Bluebeam? This might ring a bell... "For the time draws hence, six days (years) less, they will not see the Thief come... then one week... then My emblazing cross shown in all the heavens and eyes of those upon the earth. Even the blind will see. ~ [Volume 3 - "Ensign"]

Ashbeck: Hey Guys I'm Kinda new to this and not Sure what to Say or do, But i do see a need for the Original Letters, and i can Help you with that, Because i downloaded all Seven Volumes, before leaving this Trumpet call of God.

Here is a Quote from the Original Letters,

Question: Is 2011 the beginning of the Tribulation Period?
Answer: Yes. After I heard God's voice for the first time, over three years ago, I prayed fervently,
asking when will this tribulation period begin. The Lord answered clearly, "2011". The Lord is indeed
a revealer of secrets, to those who diligently seek His face at all times and concerning all things...
ADONAI, God, does nothing without revealing His plan to His servants the prophets (Amos 3:7).

TO the followers of Timothy, I want to say, Don't get angry, It's not Gods fault in fact God has used it in many ways to save you, and bring you closer to him, so Just humble yourself and Ask him to help you walk, I remember when i watched the Zeitgeist Movie, it it calmed that Jesus was actually the SUN( as in the SUN in the SKY) if was not for this,and God using it to protect me, i would have walked away from God and believed the Lie of satan.

You will get angry, and sad and Lonely, Just call on Jesus and he will help you, i know he did for me. because he knows everything and Knows Just what you are feeling.

For those who require it, Please don't bash them, they really have no idea, He makes them read it over and over, because that is a form a mind control, this is what Radical Religious ground do, and make their users comply. It's a form of brain wash, and By attacking them, it makes them go closer to him, Just keep planting seeds, and one day, that seed May sprout.


Q-A Study (Download PDF)
Original Download Date: Thus 26 May 2011 @19:20:42 GMT

Letter Study (Download PDF) Original download Date: Mon 3 Jan @21:00:28 GMT

If you Guys want the full Volumes Please say, i would be happy to Upload the Full unedited Volumes. I hope this helps someone in some way.

kittiesgalore: I saw the videos your wife has been making. Very sad. My daughter was making them for a while but not anymore. Obviously, she is doing something for them, or they wouldn't have lured her and my grandkids there to Nebraska. I am not allowed to talk to any of them. This cult is very evil. Timothy knows what he is doing. It is mind control.

Third block of discussion: What is the specific history of the group or leader?

At this point the specific group that has drawn concern is examined.

What is its unique and particular history?

What is the background and personal history of its leader or leaders?

The objective at this point in the intervention process is to review the history of the group and also to focus upon and discuss whatever might have been hidden by the group and/or its leader from members.

What events have occurred that might have been falsely interpreted or propagandized by the group?

This process is of often currently made easier by the accessibility of information through the Internet.

Whatever file concerning the group and/or leader, which has been developed, will now be discussed.

Various press clippings, historical papers, court documents and televised news reports and/or documentaries may be reviewed that are specifically about the group and/or leader at this point.

The back-and-forth discussion at this juncture increasingly focuses on how the family views the history of the group and the specific involvement of the individual. Those present at the intervention may add additional important first-hand information about what they feel is noteworthy about the group.

This process offers the cult member a unique opportunity to evaluate and critically examine the group and its history outside of what is most likely a largely controlled environment. Possibly for the first time the cult member has an outside frame of reference, and feedback from different perspectives not controlled by the group.

[T] Call of God

A 30-year-old website developer, project manager and married mother with two children, ages six and two, became involved with an online religious group known as the "[T] Call of God."

The group included about 20 to 30 active members connected entirely through the Internet.

The leader of the group, [S.T.R.], claims that he receives revelation directly from God. These revelations are then transmitted in the form of "letters from God" released through and published by [Mr. R.].

The group communicates almost entirely online using teleconferencing, frequent e-mails and website message boards.

Members are located throughout the United States, Canada and Australia.

[Mr. R.] himself runs the organization from his home in the state of [...].

Contributions to the [T] Call of God are made primarily through the Internet.

The young mother living in Canada had been a member for two years before her husband and family contacted me. At this point she had recently told her parents and brother that she would no longer communicate with them due to her beliefs.

Her 10-year marriage was also becoming increasingly strained, though she still lived with her husband.

I was retained by the parents for the intervention, which was also supported by the young woman's husband.

The preparation day meeting included all the family members together. Just as in the previous case preparation time was used to explain and discuss the parameters of our respective roles and what might be reasonably expected.

The following day the young woman arrived at her parent's home for a special visit, ostensibly to share her beliefs and explain her commitment.

My presence was as usual a complete surprise.

She also did not expect her brother, sister-in-law and husband to be present.

All phones and Internet access within the family's home had been disconnected.

After several hours of conversation the young woman became visibly agitated and protested that this was an "attack" upon her beliefs. I assured her that no one present wished to criticize her Christian faith, but rather the behavior of the group and its leader.

She calmed down.

At the end of the first day of discussion, which totaled approximately 8 hours, the young woman agreed to sleep over at her family's home, turn off her cell phone and give it to her mother. We also asked that she make no effort to communicate with or contact anyone associated with the group. She agreed to these terms at the urging of her family and husband.

We spent an entire day discussing the definition of a cult, historical cults and how many cults are supposedly "bible-based." Aspects of bible-based cults were then outlined in parallel to the [T] Call of God.

For example, David Koresh and the Waco Davidians was discussed, as Koresh had historically claimed special revelations from God.

Jim Jones had a penchant for twisting scriptures and using them to manipulate his followers. We talked about Jonestown and the so-called "Davidians" that followed Koresh in some detail.

The next day was spent examining thought reform and coercive persuasion techniques, but specifically as they might be used within the context of bible-based cults.

Documentary DVDs about the Waco Davidians and Jonestown were viewed and discussed.

We also discussed how a lack of financial transparency and accountability is typical within such groups. That is, how no one but the leader actually knows where the money ultimately goes.

A private investigator's report commissioned by the family was then reviewed.

The report included a listing of [Mr. R.]'s real estate holdings, some corporate referenced records and his recently declared income, which was substantial. All of this information directly contradicted what [Mr. R.] had been telling the group and his repeated claims that he was not motivated by money.

Finally, on the last day each member of the family shared his or her specific concerns regarding the group and how it had affected the young woman's behavior.

Her parents expressed profound sorrow concerning her recent decision to stop communicating with them. They explained that regardless of her beliefs, they would always love her and could not understand why she had decided to cut them off.

Her brother talked about the many months that had gone by without any word from her and how he missed her.

In conclusion, the husband explained how her commitment to the group seemed to supersede any other practical consideration, including both her marriage and the care of their children.

During the final two days the young woman increasingly asked critical questions.

On the third day she began to divulge unknown inside and critical information about the group. She talked about others in the group with strained marriages that had neglected their children. The young woman also disclosed that one extremely devoted member was ultimately forced to declare bankruptcy, which she suspected was due in part to excessive contributions made to the group.

These disclosures offered evidence that the group influence and control was fading.

In the end the young woman's primary concern was how to warn others not to become involved with the group.

We discussed sharing information through the Ross Institute message board and the possibility of contacting others in the early stages of group involvement.

The young woman totally terminated her involvement with the [T] Call of God.