Skeptic Project

In my country, The Netherlands, there is no laws against downloading copyrighted software/movies/games/ etc etc. There are laws against uploading, yes. The government is looking to fix this... As soon as the cabinet reorganizes itself and stops making this country look like a fucking banana republic.

Anyways, I don't normally download things unless it's "tests". For example, I tested the Sims 3, and I loved it. So I bought it.
I tested Black and White 2, liked it, and bought it.

However, I usually like Micheal Moore films. He came out with this one called 'Capitalism: A Love Story".

I'm guessing that this is a film against "americana corporatism", and against some aspects of capitalism.
Ethically, is it wrong of me to download this film, if it's speaking against capitalism?

Hi babyback ...

Didn't know they grow bananas below sea level ... lol

I saw Moore's "Capitalism ..." but I have to be honest, I didn't buy into it. He seems to be cultivating his own conspiracy theories -- just that he's a liberal CT. Nothing against "libs" -- heck I am one, too.

;-()

sorry, the how so was directed at Matt...

I still would like to see what he has to say atleast

I christ everyone, stop with the liberal/conservative thing. Guess what?

I don't care. I only follow politics because it helps with knowing future business prospects.
I'm a firm believer that politicians believe PP > LR, you know. Corporatism ftw, in my books.

However, it's still gonna be another 7 hours before it's done.

I'll admit, I didn't like Sicko too much. I mean, I don't agree with the US healthcare system, but Cuba isn't as grand as he made it seem, that's for sure.

Further more, although many EU countries follow universal health care guidelines, and when you're over here and get hurt, it's no worry. That is true, but when you're living here, you have to pay for your healthcare.

Of course the smart individuals like myself tell the government to give me money in return for what I pay for my healthcare because it's obligatory that everyone in the netherlands has healthcare.

I'll see what the film has to say.

I liked 'Bowling for Columbine', especially the toe-curling bit with Charlton Heston. Matt is right about Fahrenheit 9-11 however, Moore changed the chronology of events to achieve greater 'impact'. I think this is dishonest, the facts should stand up for themselves. This kind of creative editing is exactly the kind of thing CT-ers do all the time. As to the OP, I'd say download it and watch it, if you like it maybe buy a copy, or better still give the price of the DVD to a charity.

Okay, just started watching it.
Started off with bank cameras showing robberies. Sadly, must of the robbers are black, but this is understandable.
Now he's comparing the US to Rome, which is something a lot of people have been doing since I was at least born.

@Matt; I understand American politics, there are not just two parties. As you've stated on reasons you dislike Moore. I don't care, because I'm no longer an American. And what I like isn't necessarily irrelevant, because America is famous for it's corporate culture.
So when I say "think outside to box", I don't mean: "9/11 was an inside job", I mean: There's more than two parties. And yes, they are the ruling parties, because simple humans are pack animals and try to stick together.

@argonessen; if I had a job, I would.

Another thing, real estate guy with Vulture Real Estate claims that going in and taking advantage of another's misfortune is capitalism.
No, it's opportunism.

@Matt:

I understand that you feel the other parties are pointless, but they are there.
I'm not a "paultard", but it's very few things I see different with both parties.

Well, currently here the major parties are:
Labour Party
Christian Democratic Party
Socialist Party
Party for Freedom (and socially conservative party)
Christian Union Party (unionists that follow the bible)
Animal Party (animal protection)
Green Left (but there's no right lol)

and a few others that aren't so big, honestly.

We are a multiparty system, but we are a Constitutional Monarchy with a Parliamentary Representative Democracy. So if all else fails; god save the queen. lol!

Watching further into this film (went to have an hours workout) and it seems that now he is showing that the bible is saying that capitalism is wrong. I hate to say it... But it's half true. The whole point is to make sure that we are our brother's keepers, so to say. In the current system, it's not working out too well with that, so it would be considered immoral.

I wasn't saying Moore is his brother's keeper. I'm talking about the bible's allegorical teachings about people/humans/etc etc. being our brother's keeper. Taking care of each other. I'm saying that the bible doesn't come with what is the best economical system for society, but that we should just take care of each other. (Speaking new testament, aka: old tesament 2: electric boogaloo)

"I wasn't saying Moore is his brother's keeper. I'm talking about the bible's allegorical teachings about people/humans/etc etc. being our brother's keeper. Taking care of each other."

That's just it though, Moore stabs his allies in the back when it suits him. He lies in his movies. He weighs like 600 pounds but talks about how evil corporations are. No one gets that fat from eating veggies from their gardens. Why should I trust this dude?

"And yes, it is comparing apples and oranges. But I at least wanted to show that a multiparty system "can" work. Although it's "can" because it doesn't always."

It won't work here because we don't want it.

"I'm not trying to look at any of this from a bias stand point."

That's because you don't want to. Bias exists because Moore is dishonest in his movies. If it weren't for the dishonesty, I wouldn't care. If Moore wasn't a figurehead for the left in America, I wouldn't care.

When a liar appoints himself as a political figurehead, I'm biased, even if I agree with them politically.

I'm not going to ignore all of the misinformation in his previous films just so I can feel good about berating banksters.

@Muertos: LOL

@Matt: you say he's a liar, fine. You say he's a spokesman for the left, fine.

I can't really argue you with you, and that's fine. We think differently and I will accept that which I can not change.

Watched the rest of the film. It was.. okay.. 4 stars out of 10

Look, I don't watch American television, so I didn't know that he's done a lot of interviews and has made himself a spokesman for the left.

Is he a liar? Maybe, I don't know. But what I do know, is that his videos are as scare mongering as CTers are.

Just going back to the topic of third parties, I think the reason why our two party system in the US stays so static is because the two major parties do a very good job of co-opting the agendas of third parties that do crop up. Example, in the Progressive era (roughly 1890 to World War I) the Populists were influential, but the Democratic party stole the mantra of progressivism and Woodrow Wilson went down in history as a progressive reformer.

For this reason, third parties in the US tend to center less around issues than on personalities. Bull Moose party (Teddy Roosevelt, 1912), Dixiecrats (Strom Thurmond, 1948), Reform (Ross Perot, 1992), Green (Ralph Nader, 2000) are all examples of this. Once the personality goes away the party usually does too, or else they hang around and get marginalized to nothing. Anybody remember Lenora B. Fulani, who ran for president on the New Alliance Party in 1988? Didn't think so.

@aaronmhatch

Does that mean you pay for free pamphlets?